Any experiences with premium Damascus knives? What´s better? One of my friends suggested buying a handmade Japanese kitchen knife online but I have no experience with Damascus steel before anyone can guide me here about sharpness and durability because the website claim they are good for the kitchen and cooking.
Any experiences with Damascus knives
- Thread starter sarahandy
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LovelyLinda
Cook
I have a damascus knife from a few years back. Easily my favourite one to use. It is very sharp, no need to even sharpen it after all this time. They have a stunning pattern aswell, if family is home and I'm cooking it does catch their eye.
https://premiumdamascusknives.com/ they are good?
sara, I would say they are selling designer knives. Not saying they might not be good but think they are more into selling a look for collectors.
I suggest you go to a shop and try a few knives for the feel in your hand. I don't know where you are in Germany but I'm sure there must be some shops of repute in a nearby city at least!
I suggest you go to a shop and try a few knives for the feel in your hand. I don't know where you are in Germany but I'm sure there must be some shops of repute in a nearby city at least!
jennyema
Chef Extraordinaire
Never buy a knife before trying it first. They are like shoes. They need to fit and feel good and balanced.
Hard to say. Damascus is a generic term for steel that is pattern welded with a softer matieral. Its purpose is cosmetic. If the right materials are used and heat treated properly it can perform as well as solid steel. Without knowing that, it is guesswork.
There is a pattern welded steel from Scandinavia called Damasteel that is all stainless and very strong in the performance department. It is quite expensive. Otherwise you get reviews or reports or take your chances.
Damascus blades and Japanese knives have been fad-ridden for the past few years, and I am deeply suspicious of fakery in many if not most of the offerings online. In many case I'd bet lunch that the Damascus pattern is simply applied--like paint--not developed through the traditional process of hammering and repeatedly folding steel to produce many layers. The best advice has already been given: don't buy unless you try. Many fine Japanese knives that are not Damascus-patterned, and most of the low-priced offerings online emphasize looks as well as price. Many online sellers claim, a 100% return guarantee, but I've seen some whose 100% policy carry crippling restrictions and require users to pay return shipping in all cases. Has the friend who is encouraging this purchase bought his own Japanese knives online?
The knives pictured have pattern welded blades. They are not fake. I can't say how they perform but I can say they are not fake. Finally, the best kitchen knives on the planet are made in Japan. They are definitely not a fad.
Certainly those knives APPEAR to be pattern-welded, but I doubt it. The skill and craftsmanship required don;'t come cheap and don't admit of mass production, at least on this planet. Japanese blades became a fad after relentless promotion by collectors and users, most of them obsessive enthusiasts, on the Chowhound site and other internet sites; that's what led to the current climate, in which supposedly magnificent Japanese knives are offered at bargain prices, which are discounted even further for purchasers of multiple sets. None of that convinces me that most of the knives offered online are anything but mass-manufactured fakes made in China. I'll agree that real Japanese knives are the best in the world for Japanese cuisine.
Those damascus billets are mass produced. In fact Chinese production damascus billets cost no more than those of most medium grade stainless or carbon steels. Those knives are definitely pattern welded but the billets were not forged by hand. Hand forged damascus is quite expensive as you say. Japanese knives are the best for all cuisines. Not all Japanese knives, of course, but those of quality. The reason is thin, hard blades.
Tools for any given discipline evolve, and for cooking we're talking in centuries. For which reason I'm inclined to believe it's best to match tools developed in a specific area with use in that area. Have not experienced any problems with the apparent lower hardness level of Western knives, and feel that there are times when Japanese blades are TOO thin and edge angle too fine, resulting in chipping.
You may not be aware that the Japanese make fantastic knives for Western tastes. Check out offerings from Masamoto or Misono. They use stainless steels in styles that work just fine for Western cooking. And they still have thin hard blades. Made in Japan doesn't need to be limited to traditional Japanese patterns.
If an edge chips then it is sharpened to a more acute angle than is appropriate for the particular application. Simply re-grind it to a more obtuse angle. You can do this with a hard thin blade as well as you can with a thick blade.
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Sharpness is simply the angle to which the edge is ground. Retaining that edge depends on the hardness of the steel, the cutting application and the angle selected. The durability this author is talking about is having a mix of hardness in the make up of the blade. The idea is to have a hard edge for edge retention and a softer spine to add "toughness" or a lower average amount of brittleness to the blade.
This is usually accomplished with differential heat treatment, or forming a composite blade (two different steels one on the edge and one on the spine.) In Japan it is usually accomplished by forging a hard steel to a softer steel wrapper. They call it honsanmai or three layers (two soft layers surrounding a hard layer.)
To say that pattern welded (damascus) steel is tougher than solid steel depends entirely on the different metals involved and quality of the forging. In general a damascus blade is inferior to one made of a high quality solid steel but there are some pattern welded products that perform the same as solid steel. I think I mentioned Damasteel in an earlier post. The hard japanese carbon steels (shirogami and aogami) can be pattern welded to create a very solid blade of high performance and some cutlery craftsmen in Japan do pattern weld these steels. Damascus steel that incorporates softer metals such as nickel or copper are not so good. So there are exceptions to my rule.
Generally speaking choosing a pattern welded blade is a choice of putting appearance over performance. The only sure way of knowing that you will get a high quality blade is knowing the reputation of the knife maker because the forging process itself is not consistent from one maker to another even though the materials can be identical.
My advice. Go with a honsanmai blade that uses pattern welded steel for the wrapper with a hard stainless or carbon steel core. That way you get both performance and appearance. I have 3 or 4 gyutos (chef's knives) made this way and all are excellent performers.
The author talks about preferences and that is an important thing as well. For instance the right way to grip a chef knife is to hold the blade, just ahead of the handle with the thumb and forefinger and let the other three fingers wrap around the handle. Holding the knife like you would hold a hammer is not as effective as it reduces control. Ideally the knife will be balanced at the point you place your thumb and forefinger. Most Japanese gyutos are so balanced depending on blade length. The Euro and American knives are mostly handle heavy thanks to the penchant for using forged or welded bolsters between edge and handle. A little while with a good Japanese gyuto will cure your interest in those knives.
The other main preferences are handle material and blade length. Personally I'm not concerned about handle shape since I grip the knives as I mentioned above. If it looks good and makes you happy it is a good choice. Longer blades are more efficient while shorter blades are more nimble. My personal favorite blade length for a gyuto is 240 mm which is about 9 1/2". That is an average blade length. Your preference may be different from mine and that is fine. Since japanese knives are lighter than Euro knives you can get a more efficient longer blade with the same comfort you experience with a shorter Euro knife.
Do you want to get into sharpening?
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Sharpening? Only if you make house calls. 
So, when all is said (and it pretty much has been) and done, your average home cook is best off to go and try to find a specialty store. Stay within your budget and absolutely try the knife(s) first. You won't be sorry.
So, when all is said (and it pretty much has been) and done, your average home cook is best off to go and try to find a specialty store. Stay within your budget and absolutely try the knife(s) first. You won't be sorry.
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thymeless
Sous Chef
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- Aug 12, 2006
- Messages
- 638
I have an IKEA Damascus knife. They don't make it anymore but it was a surprisingly good buy.
This particular blade was part of their slitbar line. Most of that line wasn't special and just okay for its price but they made their 8-in chef's knife in a special edition for a time with a VG-10 core and san mai stainless Damascus cladding. The design looks a little bit truncated and snouty sort of like a slightly elongated santoku. But I do like its performance.
San Mai is just a Japanese term to describe a blade with a high grade steel core and a lower grade exterior to provide the thickness and toughness to the blade. It's a way to economize.
Lots of kitchen people will complain that VG-10 is chippy though that hasn't been my experience. I would critique that it's a bit thick behind the edge and take some thinning which mars the look of the Damascus cladding.
Lots of Damascus style kitchen blades are san mai construction. I think for the modern world that this gives you the performance of a high grade powder metallurgy steel for the edge with aesthetic presence of the cladding.
But for the modern world Damascus is more about looks than performance generally.
I mostly use my 10-in MAC but this gets maybe 20% of my cutting time any more, usually for high grit applications (likely to cause a chip) or chopping through chicken bones and such.
This particular blade was part of their slitbar line. Most of that line wasn't special and just okay for its price but they made their 8-in chef's knife in a special edition for a time with a VG-10 core and san mai stainless Damascus cladding. The design looks a little bit truncated and snouty sort of like a slightly elongated santoku. But I do like its performance.
San Mai is just a Japanese term to describe a blade with a high grade steel core and a lower grade exterior to provide the thickness and toughness to the blade. It's a way to economize.
Lots of kitchen people will complain that VG-10 is chippy though that hasn't been my experience. I would critique that it's a bit thick behind the edge and take some thinning which mars the look of the Damascus cladding.
Lots of Damascus style kitchen blades are san mai construction. I think for the modern world that this gives you the performance of a high grade powder metallurgy steel for the edge with aesthetic presence of the cladding.
But for the modern world Damascus is more about looks than performance generally.
I mostly use my 10-in MAC but this gets maybe 20% of my cutting time any more, usually for high grit applications (likely to cause a chip) or chopping through chicken bones and such.
samchef
Assistant Cook
Yes i had very good experience with damascus steel knives but make sure you buy original damascus steel knives with 67 layers i got my Damascus knives set from Jun Knives and im quit satisfied with the quality.
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My fist experience with Damascus steel knives was in Toledo, Spain. (pronounced Tow-Lay-Doh, not like the city in Ohio). Those were mostly weapons, like swords. I got to watch some craftsmen working on some swords (mostly for decorative use, these days).
CD
CD
pictonguy
Sous Chef
Generally that result is from using the wrong knife for a specific job. A western chef's knife is a bull and is used for pretty much everything in a French kitchen, where a Japanese chef will look at the task and the ingredient then pick the right knife. A westerners mistake basically and I'm not saying that Japanese knifes don't fail or chip but again, generally speaking a Japanese knife has a higher rockwell rating that makes them chip easier anyway, so care must be taken to ensure a person is using the right knife.
Also the vast majority of Damascus knives in Japan, or China etc are mass produced but the best ones are definitely hand made. imo
