Beef Bourguignon--wine substitution

The friendliest place on the web for anyone that enjoys cooking.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.

blissful

Executive Chef
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
4,736
I'm going to visit a friend that doesn't use alcohol, not even in cooking.

I make a really good beef bourguignon, beef, onions, more onions, mushrooms, burgundy wine, worchestershire, beef broth, thyme, white pepper, salt, tomato paste, etc.
I use at least a couple cups to a quart of burgundy wine in it.

If I was to substitute something for the wine, I was thinking of using a red grape juice, if that can be found, then something for the acid, and something for the tannin taste--if that is the right word. There is an astringent quality to the wine, I call it a tannin taste but I'm not sure that is right.
I'd cut back on the amount of grape juice because it will be too sweet but what else would you add to replace the tastes I'm looking for?

I understand that you can 'boil off' the alcohol but that is not what I want to do here. Any ideas?
 

di reston

Sous Chef
Joined
Mar 25, 2010
Messages
805
Location
Calosso, Piemonte
Why don't you make a Daube Provencale instead? Whilst it does use red wine, the amount is negligible, i.e. 1 glass, and the orange zest gives this stew a very interesting flavour:

2lbs good quality stewing beef
4 oz bacon lardons
3 medium carrots
1 glass red wine
2 dessertspoons red wine vinegar
1 bouquet garni, or, (same thing), a small bundle of bay leaves and thyme leaves
1 piece orange zest about 2 1/2 inches long
pinch sugar
olive oil
salt and pepper

Cut the beef into cubes more or less the same size. Marinade in the red wine and vinaigre - add a little water if you don't want a strong winey flavour - leave for four hours.
Slice up the vegetables, and put them and the bacon lardons into a terracotta casserole with some good quaity olive oil. Fry off for a short while then add the beef without the liquid. Seal the meat, then add the marinade liquid - which you could discard at this stage if you like - and freshly made stock, the bouquet garni and the orange zest. Bring to the boil slowly, and simmer for 4 hours or until the meat is tender. Don't let it boil down too much - you will need some dunking sauce. Instead of red wine, you could use white, in which make sure your meat is thoroughly browned. The original recipe requires 1 litre good red wine per kilo of beef.

di reston


Enough is never as good as a feast Oscar Wilde
 

blissful

Executive Chef
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
4,736
Thank you for all the ideas. I like the idea of using some balsamic vinegar dawg, that will give it a little sweet and a little bite.

Di Reston, that recipe sound OH SO GOOD!! I made my DH some orange beef and then last night we were watching America's Test Kitchen and they said to put the orange peel with a little pith, sliced very thin, into it to give it both the orangey flavor and a little bit of bite from the pith. I'm going to try your recipe this next week, I have the roast in the freezer, carrots on the grocery list, that recipe sounds delicious.
 

jennyema

Chef Extraordinaire
Joined
Mar 1, 2002
Messages
10,420
Location
Boston and Cape Cod
Why make a totally wine based dish for someone who can't drink?

Balsamic vinegar ... Are you sure? That sounds way off to me. Not a sub for the red wine in BB

Choose a different recipe !!!
 
Last edited:

Addie

Chef Extraordinaire
Joined
Nov 9, 2011
Messages
22,297
Location
East Boston, MA
I don't drink or even use alcohol in any cooking other than what my Pure Vanilla Extract contains. Yet I have gone to homes that cooked meals with wine and to tell you the truth, I couldn't even detect it. Maybe my test buds are off. But I have the feeling that those dishes would have tasted a little flat. I do know for a fact that the Italian restaurant my family loves to attend, uses wine in the pasta sauce. And as a child, growing up and seeing a bottle of homemade wine always sitting near the stove for the purpose of cooking. Yet I sat at their table eating delicious food that had wine in it. Never bothered me, except to say I enjoyed it.

Unless it is for their religious reasons, then I see no harm in making it according to your own recipe. :angel:
 

di reston

Sous Chef
Joined
Mar 25, 2010
Messages
805
Location
Calosso, Piemonte
In my experience, if you 're not used to using wine in cookery, then if you do, it tastes awful, but just a little bit can lift it. The Burgundians put lots of wine in their dishes because the area produces so much of the stuff, and it's the same everywhere else where wine production is a major industry, not to mention the vinegar factories and producers - yes, you can get 'designer' vinegars! - and the wine spirits like brandy, but where wine is not produced, but beer instead, that's the alcohol that's used in cooking.

di reston


Enough is never as good as a feast Oscar Wilde
 

Mad Cook

Master Chef
Joined
Jun 9, 2013
Messages
5,118
Location
North West England
I'm going to visit a friend that doesn't use alcohol, not even in cooking.

I make a really good beef bourguignon, beef, onions, more onions, mushrooms, burgundy wine, worchestershire, beef broth, thyme, white pepper, salt, tomato paste, etc.
I use at least a couple cups to a quart of burgundy wine in it.

If I was to substitute something for the wine, I was thinking of using a red grape juice, if that can be found, then something for the acid, and something for the tannin taste--if that is the right word. There is an astringent quality to the wine, I call it a tannin taste but I'm not sure that is right.
I'd cut back on the amount of grape juice because it will be too sweet but what else would you add to replace the tastes I'm looking for?

I understand that you can 'boil off' the alcohol but that is not what I want to do here. Any ideas?
To be honest, I think I would leave it out and substitute more beef broth. It wouldn't really be beef bourguignon but it should still taste good.
 
Last edited:

GotGarlic

Chef Extraordinaire
Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
26,730
Location
Southeastern Virginia

RPCookin

Executive Chef
Joined
Apr 20, 2005
Messages
2,857
Location
Logan County, Colorado
Yep. If your friend is that particular about alcohol, then I would not try to make something where one of the primary flavors comes from wine. Even though most of the alcohol cooks out of such dishes, for some people what's left is still too much. Whether the issue is cultural or physiological, I think that I'd just find a different dish to make.
 

Dawgluver

Chef Extraordinaire
Joined
Apr 12, 2011
Messages
25,031
Agree with using a different recipe. Certain medications can make a person very ill if they have any alcohol, and alcohol is in a lot of stuff, including vinegars, extract, some salad dressings, other condiments, for example. DH's company produces alcohol, and it's amazing how prevalent it is in everyday ingredients.

It's a shame, I would think Blissful's beef bourguignon is delicious!
 
Last edited:

CharlieD

Master Chef
Joined
Oct 17, 2004
Messages
9,938
Location
USA,Minnesota
Skip the alcohol altogether. There are no really good substitutes for really good wine. In one way or another it will be different. But as long as it tastes good you are ok.
 

GotGarlic

Chef Extraordinaire
Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
26,730
Location
Southeastern Virginia
From what I've read, there's no more alcohol in vinegar than there is in sourdough bread, so vinegar should not be a concern. There are lots of options other than wine for making a tasty beef dish.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom