Browning my pan instead of my ground beef

[The Ghan]

Think ratio of meat to pan size.
I gather from what taxy said that Chef John was cooking a large amount of meat in a pan we would normally have used for much smaller amounts.

Ahh I had a feeling that may have been the case - thanks

All I can say CD is - my minced beef browns perfectly for me to add the sauce, after draining it, and continue cooking

 

[BAPyessir6]

I've seen what he does, and do something similar. I never brown more than one pound of ground meat at a time, and I'll kind of flatten it out, and lay it in the pan like a big burger. I'll let it sit and brown on one side, then flip it and brown the other side. Then, I'll break it up (I have one of those nifty plastic ground beef chopper things that works great).

I use either my coated cast iron, or an All Clad try-ply SS pan. I will put a thin coating of avocado oil on the pan (pour a small amount of oil in the pan, and wipe it around with a paper towel). Between the oiled pan, and letting the beef get browned before moving it, allows it to mostly release from the pan. What's left is fond.

CD

I've done that for meatballs. I've also put raw meatballs directly into my tomato sauce to cook for spaghetti and I've found that the directly in sauced meatballs have less flavor, but are more tender and almost melt into the sauce.

Being said, I still do like browned meatballs. Now it's back to basics for me on browning ground beef. Good thing I recently bought like 20 pounds on sale (2 dollar a pound ground chuck (80/20) at my local Mikes discount foods. I'm feeling lucky!)

 

[taxlady]

I've seen what he does, and do something similar. I never brown more than one pound of ground meat at a time, and I'll kind of flatten it out, and lay it in the pan like a big burger. I'll let it sit and brown on one side, then flip it and brown the other side. Then, I'll break it up (I have one of those nifty plastic ground beef chopper things that works great).

I use either my coated cast iron, or an All Clad try-ply SS pan. I will put a thin coating of avocado oil on the pan (pour a small amount of oil in the pan, and wipe it around with a paper towel). Between the oiled pan, and letting the beef get browned before moving it, allows it to mostly release from the pan. What's left is fond.

CD

I have only seen him do the crowded pan thing that one time. If I remember correctly, he usually tells you not to crowd the pan with meat.

 

[BAPyessir6]

I think 1 lb of minced meat in a 12" pot says it all!

Today I was doing 2.5 lb in a 12" with a cup of water and it never browned. Of course I don't want it to but the point here is ratio (my favourite math subject).

I think 1 lb of minced meat in a 12" pot says it all!

Today I was doing 2.5 lb in a 12" with a cup of water and it never browned. Of course I don't want it to but the point here is ratio (my favourite math subject).

This post has been a good reminder for me!

About 10 percent of the time, I use whatever pan I have on hand even if it won't be enough, then I pray that a 2 cup pan will be enough for 4 cups of food. Well, obviously it never is and I always end up transferring it to a bigger pan or pot. Moral of the story is, a bigger pot or pan is usually better than a smaller one! Or, as everyone says, cook in smaller batches. Leads to a more consistent cook after all. And that cow didn't pass away just so I could boil the meat into a second grey death!

Also, like, doing dishes stinks for me and I'm basically doubling the number of dishes I'm doing.

 

[pictonguy]

I have only seen him do the crowded pan thing that one time. If I remember correctly, he usually tells you not to crowd the pan with meat.

It was the video link in my "Going to make Pasta alla Genovese" thread that I linked to where chef John added all the beef at once and explained that eventually it would brown and for that particular recipe and because the extra water from overcrowding and steaming would not take away from the dish he did that, and that would work for say chili or taco's or sloppy joes but not good for burgers or stir fry's. If a person is not very experienced with pan heat retention, understanding starting temp before adding a protein to a fry pan, or the correct amount of oil to help facilitate a proper and even distribution of caramelization without burning the bottom of the pan or the protein, then poaching and boiling a protein is like a safety valve that stops any of those mistakes from being a factor to begin with. The fact remains that caramelization and browning (the Maillard reaction) doesn't happen at 212 degrees which is the temp of that pan when all that liquid is boiling, just saying.

 

[BAPyessir6]

It was the video link in my "Going to make Pasta alla Genovese" thread that I linked to where chef John added all the beef at once and explained that eventually it would brown and for that particular recipe and because the extra water from overcrowding and steaming would not take away from the dish he did that, and that would work for say chili or taco's or sloppy joes but not good for burgers or stir fry's. If a person is not very experienced with pan heat retention, understanding starting temp before adding a protein to a fry pan, or the correct amount of oil to help facilitate a proper and even distribution of caramelization without burning the bottom of the pan or the protein, then poaching and boiling a protein is like a safety valve that stops any of those mistakes from being a factor to begin with. The fact remains that caramelization and browning (the Maillard reaction) doesn't happen at 212 degrees which is the temp of that pan when all that liquid is boiling, just saying.

This makes me want to practice heat retention more by cooking some steak on my SS and cast iron. I feel like I'm better at using my cast iron, but I'm less confident in my SS steak/meat abilities.

I really love searing steak in a pan then finishing it in the oven. I've also sous vid it to 20 degrees under temp, then finished it in my cast iron. Gotta dry it really well though, or else I just steam it.

 

[caseydog]

This makes me want to practice heat retention more by cooking some steak on my SS and cast iron. I feel like I'm better at using my cast iron, but I'm less confident in my SS steak/meat abilities.

I really love searing steak in a pan then finishing it in the oven. I've also sous vid it to 20 degrees under temp, then finished it in my cast iron. Gotta dry it really well though, or else I just steam it.

I agree that your cast iron would be better, but a multi-ply SS pan would work. Cast iron is hard to beat for heat retention. Searing then popping in the oven is what a lot of chefs on YouTube do. I've never tried it, because I sous vide, then sear. I either use a HOT cast iron pan for my sear, or sometimes a good kitchen torch.

CD

 

[BAPyessir6]

I agree that your cast iron would be better, but a multi-ply SS pan would work. Cast iron is hard to beat for heat retention. Searing then popping in the oven is what a lot of chefs on YouTube do. I've never tried it, because I sous vide, then sear. I either use a HOT cast iron pan for my sear, or sometimes a good kitchen torch.

CD

Oooh I forgot about reverse searing! (Oven at low then sear hot in pan) I've found that works good too, and it's nice that it's drier in the oven and thus I don't need to worry about the meat potentially steaming if my heat is off. Though the consistent set and forget temperature of a sous vid is hard to beat. I once forgot my steak in the oven and it got to like medium well before I was able to finish it with a good hard sear.

 

[caseydog]

Oooh I forgot about reverse searing! (Oven at low then sear hot in pan) I've found that works good too, and it's nice that it's drier in the oven and thus I don't need to worry about the meat potentially steaming if my heat is off. Though the consistent set and forget temperature of a sous vid is hard to beat. I once forgot my steak in the oven and it got to like medium well before I was able to finish it with a good hard sear.

With sous vide, you pretty much have to reverse sear. That's the only time I use reverse searing. Sous vide and seared is my favorite way to cook steak, and it is even better for pork chops.

CD

 

[Meryl]

A common factor I always see in recipes is the fact that we must never brown too many meat pieces all at once! Overcrowding will lead to the meat losing its natural juices, water in the pan which will end up steaming the meat instead of browning, ending up tough and less tasty. So, no, we should never, ever prevent the Maillard reaction from happening if we want delicious, browned, succulent, tender meat.

 

[BAPyessir6]

This time I browned my beef instead of my pan.

5 lb. ground (78/22) chuck browned in 1 pound increments. I tried both cold pan cold meat and hot pan cold meat and found no discernable difference in browning quality or overall sticking, only browning speed.

I think my pan has hot spots, which is unfortunate. Or it could be my electric stove. Either way, success!

 

[taxlady]

This time I browned my beef instead of my pan.

5 lb. ground (78/22) chuck browned in 1 pound increments. I tried both cold pan cold meat and hot pan cold meat and found no discernable difference in browning quality or overall sticking, only browning speed.

I think my pan has hot spots, which is unfortunate. Or it could be my electric stove. Either way, success!

So, which way was faster? Cold pan cold meat or hot pan cold meat? Did you use any oil or other fat to brown the meat?

 

[caseydog]

This time I browned my beef instead of my pan.

5 lb. ground (78/22) chuck browned in 1 pound increments. I tried both cold pan cold meat and hot pan cold meat and found no discernable difference in browning quality or overall sticking, only browning speed.

I think my pan has hot spots, which is unfortunate. Or it could be my electric stove. Either way, success!

Hot spots are common, unless you have a really expensive stove. You are doing the right thing, IMO, by browning your beef according to what your stove top and pans can do. "That's just you cooking," as Chef John would say.

As I've said before, you are a good cook. Use that to deal with these things, and keep growing.

I often read your posts and wonder why you seem to underestimate yourself. I'd gladly eat at your home. Keep asking questions, and keep cooking. You have nowhere to go but up.

CD

 

[medtran49]

Either ATK or Cook's Country experimented and found that

1 pound g beef
3/4 tsp salt
3/8 baking soda
1 Tbsp water

Gently mix, allow to sit for 20 minutes

Helps with browning and clumping of ground beef. It does work, I just rarely remember to do it in advance.

We were watching an old Jacques Pepin episode this past weekend and he added a bit of stock, said you could use beef, vege or chicken, gently worked it into the ground meat, then browned. The bit of stock added quickly evaporated and the meat didn't clump. Use for ground beef pork, chicken or turkey.

 

[caseydog]

Either ATK or Cook's Country experimented and found that

1 pound g beef
3/4 tsp salt
3/8 baking soda
1 Tbsp water

I vaguely remember hearing or reading something about baking soda and browning, maybe from ATK. Don't recall the water, but my memory isn't what it used to be.

CD

 

[pictonguy]

Anytime I"m sauteing and create a fond and if it's on the verge of burning I'll add a little water or wine (a liquid) which deglazes that fond which is then added to the overall caramelization when that liquid is then reabsorbed back into the base mixture adding to the overall flavor.

 

[medtran49]

I vaguely remember hearing or reading something about baking soda and browning, maybe from ATK. Don't recall the water, but my memory isn't what it used to be.

CD

I think they've done it both ways. It's easier to disperse when dissolved in water. The baking soda was said to change the pH so as to promote browning. A tablespoon is not much liquid.

Jacque didn't measure the stock he added, just poured a dollop out, then mixed in. It couldn't have been more than a tablespoon or 2.

 

[BAPyessir6]

So, which way was faster? Cold pan cold meat or hot pan cold meat? Did you use any oil or other fat to brown the meat?

I found that I got browning faster with a hot pan hot meat, and I kept scraping the bottom of the pan to add the fond back into the meat.

No oil was added, as the 78/22 had enough fat in it to brown itself!

Took about 10 minutes a batch. 5 minutes of no stirring/moving once I pressed it into the pan to develop a crust, then I flipped it, let it go 4-5 more minutes, then chopped it up with my spatula.

 

[BAPyessir6]

Hot spots are common, unless you have a really expensive stove. You are doing the right thing, IMO, by browning your beef according to what your stove top and pans can do. "That's just you cooking," as Chef John would say.

As I've said before, you are a good cook. Use that to deal with these things, and keep growing.

I often read your posts and wonder why you seem to underestimate yourself. I'd gladly eat at your home. Keep asking questions, and keep cooking. You have nowhere to go but up.

CD

I really appreciate that. I grew up in a perfectionistic home and thus doubt my abilities (dang it; I'm not perfect) but thanks so much for reminding me that my skills aren't dependant on whether or not I always feel I'm good at something.

On a similar note, I recently saw a video of a pro video gamer watch a replay of himself making a mistake. He then turned around on camera and began bashing his head into a wall due to frustration with himself.

I find I sometimes mentally beat myself up if I make one small mistake in cooking, so it's interesting to see other "more talented" people likewise doubt their abilities.

That being said, I do need to work on being more confident in my cooking abilities and skills. And when I make a mistake, to remember that I am human (in the famous words of Hannah Montana "everybody makes mistakes") and even Gordon Ramsey messes up once in awhile too.

Merry Christmas to you! Love your post and kind words, and I really do love this forum of lovely wonderful chefs and aspiring chefs.

 

[caseydog]

That being said, I do need to work on being more confident in my cooking abilities and skills. And when I make a mistake, to remember that I am human (in the famous words of Hannah Montana "everybody makes mistakes") and even Gordon Ramsey messes up once in awhile too.

Watch Gordon Ramsay's grilled cheese debacle video on YouTube that he will never live down.

CD