First Knife Buy

[jm2hil]

Hi everyone and to anyone who answers, thanks in advance!

I have just begun the process of trying to decide on my first real knife purchase.
I have read through probably 10 hours of forums and reviews.

My first knife purchase was actually a few years ago. A friend of mine works at the cutco factory and I bough some knives from him at 70 percent off and I thought they were okay but not great.

The essentials I really want are:

8" Chef Knife
7" Santoku

3-4" Pairing Knife
6" Utility
6" Utility serrated -- I like having an okay utility for when someone else wants to cook in my kitchen!

Cheese Knife (most people may find these useless but I for the life of me can't cut cheese without a cheese knife)

I have looked at:
wusthof
Zwilling
Shun
Global
MAC

but I just not sure what to do! Price range is about 150
per knife probably

on a side: I am from canada so if they're are any other canadians out there who no fo good places to get from in toronto or online without crazy shipping costs please let me know!

 

[Bigjim68]

Take a look at the Tojiro DP. A lot of knife for the money. The best deals I have found is at either Chef's Knives to Go and Cutlery and More. Had good luck with both of these vendors.

 

[Rob Babcock]

+1. Hard to go wrong with the Tojiro. Fit and finish is generally good and they have a nice factory edge.

 

[GB]

Here is another vote for Tojiro. I started with Wustof which I liked and still like. My next step up was Tojiro and it was a great step up. I have moved up from there, but have never lost my love for my Tojiro. They are reasonably priced and hold a great edge.

 

[jm2hil]

Will definitely look into Tojiro/Have spent the last 10 hours looking at Tojiro stuff -- its a bad addiction to start having!

Just a couple questions:

They have a very sharp edge, cut to I think 16 degrees.
What are they like to sharpen? Which waterstone do you recommend?

I'm not sure if I would want to get them sharpened as the only sharpening places I know in Canada probably don't have much experience with Japanese knives.

What are these like compared to the Shun classic?

The shuns are a bit more expensive but they seem to have a much better warranty service. The extra added comfort is always nice.

Thanks!

 

[Bigjim68]

Tojiro and Shun are both VG 10 clad steel, and would sharpen the same. I think the angles are similar, although I am not sure. Shun is clad in 16 layers each side with the VG 10 core (called Damascus), Tojiro DP has one layer each side. IMO, the difference is mainly cosmetic. I have my knives sharpened by a pro. Rob, Buzzard, and others could tell you more about sharpening.

The Tojiros I bought at Christmas arrived extremely sharp. I have not had them resharpened. I don't think there would be much difference in difficulty of sharpening of any of the clad VG 10 knives.

 

[GB]

Do yourself a favor and get an Edgepro Apex sharpening system. It is expensive, but worth it if you want to keep your knives sharp.

 

[jm2hil]

Hey all again.

Still trying to finalize order. I really want to get the tojiro DP set but I'm a little bit nervous about the lack of warranty.

Is it worth it to get something a bit pricier (ala Shun or something else you recommend) to get the lifetime warranty for those just in case situations?

thanks

 

[GB]

Personally, I would go with the Tojiro and not worry about the warranty. They make a quality product. You won't have any issues with them. It all depends on your comfort level though. If not having a lifetime warranty is going to bother you then you need to consider that.

 

[Bigjim68]

Not sure about the warranty. Cutlery and More advertises a lifetime warranty on the Tojiro. I would guess this is factory warranty. As I understand it, the Shun does offer free lifetime sharpening. I don't know the quality of their sharpening.

I think it comes down to whether you want the damascus finish or not. Either knife will perform equally in the kitchen. I don't own Shuns, but my knives (Kanetsune) are similar in steel quality. Tojiro and Kanetsune perform equally for me.

 

[Bigjim68]

I agree. Buy the Tojiro, save the money, and use it to buy an Edgepro.

 

[jm2hil]

Hey,

Thanks for all the info and everything.

After reading all the warranty policies from individual j-knife companies I still decided on the Tojiro knives.

Ordered all my stuff from Chef Knives to Go. (While emailing them the service was great -- highly recommend them. I will update this when the order is confirmed and shipped).

my original price per knife was 150. For 5 knives this would be 750. I spent a total of 625 which is pretty good budget wise

Order was:

Petty 120mm
Utility 150mm
Santoku 170mm
Chef 210mm
Birds Beak 70mm

For cheese knife I'll still use my cutco, and when other people come visit they can use the cutco stuff too.

I also ordered the EdgePro Apex chosera stone kit.
The system looks amazing and easy to use. I wasn't all that happy with stones it came with but saw this kit and i'm pretty excited to use the Chosera stones. Hope that I can pick it up quickly.

When my bank account feels fuller I will start buying individual stones and practice on some older knives. Someone said on the forum that its not just to make your knives sharper its an art. I'd like to learn to sharpen by hand with the individual stones.

Also got the idahone ceramic rod.

Last question:

Does anyone have any recommendations for stropping?


Should I get the strops that fit the edge pro? or should I get the hand america hone base?

This ones on my birthday list so spare no expense!

Thanks again

 

[Rob Babcock]

Hey,

Thanks for all the info and everything.

After reading all the warranty policies from individual j-knife companies I still decided on the Tojiro knives.

Ordered all my stuff from Chef Knives to Go. (While emailing them the service was great -- highly recommend them. I will update this when the order is confirmed and shipped).

my original price per knife was 150. For 5 knives this would be 750. I spent a total of 625 which is pretty good budget wise

Order was:

Petty 120mm
Utility 150mm
Santoku 170mm
Chef 210mm
Birds Beak 70mm

Wow, you really went all out! I think you'll love them. Also a wise move buying from CKtG! I never buy anything without checking there first. Mark does customer service like few others!

Overall I think the warranty isn't really all that big a deal. If you have a problem it will probably occur right away; any reputable dealer will exchange it or allow a return. I know that that some companies (notably Wusthof) will repair or replace a knife even in cases of obvious abuse, but in normal use it's unlikely you'll have a problem that can't be fixed. The most likely problem you'll face with a Tojiro is probably having the tip break if you drop it point first on concrete. That might break any knife tip. But I've repaired many broken tips, it's really not a big deal.

One thing I will point out is that Shun no longer offers free sharpening. Going forward they will give you a discount for a sharpening chain that you can send it to. To me that pretty much eliminates the sole reason I'd ever recommend Shun to anyone. Nowadays the Tojiro DP line is made out of the same VG-10 steel Shun uses, and they're a bit cheaper. To me that's a slam dunk.

I also ordered the EdgePro Apex chosera stone kit.
The system looks amazing and easy to use. I wasn't all that happy with stones it came with but saw this kit and i'm pretty excited to use the Chosera stones. Hope that I can pick it up quickly.

When my bank account feels fuller I will start buying individual stones and practice on some older knives. Someone said on the forum that its not just to make your knives sharper its an art. I'd like to learn to sharpen by hand with the individual stones.

Also got the idahone ceramic rod.

Congrats! The Edge Pro will do an amazing job on your Tojiros. And while the stock stones work okay the Chocera stones are amazing, completely on a different level. I'd say you're all set!

Last question:

Does anyone have any recommendations for stropping?


Should I get the strops that fit the edge pro? or should I get the hand america hone base?

This ones on my birthday list so spare no expense!

Thanks again

You really are going "all in"! The EP works well for stropping but you can do it freehand, too. I use both. The Hand American strop base is very nice. I tend to use compounds on balsa wood more than leather but that's just me.

One last thing you should get is a 5/16" drill stop collar for setting the angle between stones. You can pick one up at any hardware store for a couple dollars, tops. It will really speed up your sharpening while improving your precision.

 

[jm2hil]

Wow, you really went all out! I think you'll love them. Also a wise move buying from CKtG! I never buy anything without checking there first. Mark does customer service like few others!

Overall I think the warranty isn't really all that big a deal. If you have a problem it will probably occur right away; any reputable dealer will exchange it or allow a return. I know that that some companies (notably Wusthof) will repair or replace a knife even in cases of obvious abuse, but in normal use it's unlikely you'll have a problem that can't be fixed. The most likely problem you'll face with a Tojiro is probably having the tip break if you drop it point first on concrete. That might break any knife tip. But I've repaired many broken tips, it's really not a big deal.

I guess I went a little crazy . My opinion has always be go big or go home. I seem to jump into things and go all out. The one before this was skiing - dam thats an expensive activity but I've loved every second of it and plan on doing it for the rest of my life so lets hope the same happens with these!

Yeah after reading the warranty info from the companies I decided the price different wasn't worth it. In worst case I can replace some of the Tojiros for max 70 dollars. If a tip does break it will give me a good knife to practice repairing and reprofiling. Pretty happy with the decisions so far!

Congrats! The Edge Pro will do an amazing job on your Tojiros. And while the stock stones work okay the Chocera stones are amazing, completely on a different level. I'd say you're all set!

You really are going "all in"! The EP works well for stropping but you can do it freehand, too. I use both. The Hand American strop base is very nice. I tend to use compounds on balsa wood more than leather but that's just me.

Okay fine I went double crazy this cost more than the knives!

But I'm hoping its a system to last a lifetime. All the reviews were great and the polish on the knives with the 10000 grit stone looks unbelievable. So while I'm learning to freehand the system looks worth more than I paid so no complaints here.

One last thing you should get is a 5/16" drill stop collar for setting the angle between stones. You can pick one up at any hardware store for a couple dollars, tops. It will really speed up your sharpening while improving your precision.

Are you talking about using the Drill Stop on the arm to set a true angle? or as a guide for freehand sharpening?

Just a bit of confusion for me. Thanks for the help and reply!

you guys rock!

 

[jm2hil]

an update in case anyone cares as much as I do

Bit of a snag in the ordering process. They were out of stock of the Santoku and Mark said I could change it out with the Nakiri if I was interested. As I primarily use the santoku for vegetables I figured I would give it a shot.

Anyone have any good tips for them?

Most places I read said use a push-cut or small chop and they work great - push cut is my personal favourite so this seems okay with me. anyone have anything to add?

 

[GB]

If you like the push cut then I think you will be very happy with the Nakiri.

The one problem I see with your ordering style is that once you get your Tojiros you are going to be hooked and then want to upgrade even more. Had you started with just one knife the upgrade would be less painful

 

[dcSaute]

after some 20+ years of using (just) chef knives, I got a 7" santuko and it has become my favorite weapon of choice for (most) vegetable prep - I use an 8" or 10" chef for big hard stuff like an acorn squash.

the flatter belly does lend itself to the push cut/slice - altho it does very well at the rat-tat-tat vertical chop for example after lopping off a chunk of fresh parsley then 'reducing it'

every maker has a slightly different geometry - so it's difficult to directly 'compare' - what you got is what you 'get used to' and then everything else feels a little funny.

santoku vs nakiri - frankly, not sure if the rounded santoku spine tip would actually make a difference - neither is intended for "piercing" cuts. it's all in how the handle 'fits' your hand as to how comfortable and natural the usage becomes. oh, the flatter belly also means you'll need a reasonably flat board. I have an old one that is dished in from use and the santoku doesn't like that . . .

santoku typically have a single sided bevel with a very slight back bevel - if you haven't used one, you'll pretty quickly 'feel' how much 'sharper' they handle. on the down side, that edge does roll a bit faster/easier - which I have found not to be an issue because I steel regularly - like just about every use.

keeping them sharp is always a good thing. personally I find there is "sharp" and there is "uber-sharp" - aka really really sharp past necessity and btw a pita to maintain.... but that's just me (g)

 

[Bigjim68]

I prefer the Nakiri over the Santuko. The Nakiri is near the top of my most used knife list. The Santuko near the bottom. The rounded end glides over the cutting board, the angle is steeper, therefore feels sharper to me, and the blade is thinner.

I have the same one you just bought.

 

[jm2hil]

Order successfully placed and has been shipped. Super Excited.

Also found out a close friend of mine is into cooking and knives so now I will have someone to share my new found happiness with! Although he has expressly told me he like european knifes with Wusthoff and Henckels being his favourites. Let the arguments ensue1

As for Nakiri or Santoku (dcSaute and Bigjim68) I have only ever used a santoku with a pull-chopping motion for the vegies but am excited because I prefer a push-cut and the thinness of the Nakiri should let me use that efficiently. When the knives come in (hopefully sooner than later stupid Canada Post) I will update you guys on which I prefer. I'm either way I'll love them