Going to make "Pasta alla Genovese"

[pictonguy]

I've never made this pasta before and I find it intriguing and @Meryl have you ever had it, made it, see it on menu's?

Anyway this recipe predates tomatoes in Italy and is originally from Naples and it's basically a hunk of meat and onions cooked for hours. I have some chuck and some brisket in the freezer, so I'm going to use that and I picked up some Spanish onions from my local go to farm stand.

 

[thymeless]

I've had it in Naples. It was really good. When I made it at home, I went with sous vide. I liked the results.

Chuck roast, 172 for 16-20 hours.

 

[Rocklobster]

Hey, PG. Growing up, we just called it ragu. I was surprised when I learned people put tomatoes in ragu. lol. We use left over roast beef cut into chunks and slowly brown it with the onions. Once a heavy, thick fond is created I add some beef broth and thyme. Maybe even some left over beef gravy if there is any. Simmer and let reduce by half. Then I put some very al dente pasta in it and finish it off until most of the broth is absorbed and you just have a thick beefy coating on the noodles. Coarse black pepper and parsley and you are good to go. I don't usually have parmesan with it. It's good just like that. Sometimes I'll add garlic but my mother never did. This is a timely post because I have short ribs planned for tomorrow so I get to have some Monday. I look forward to it as much as the ribs.

 

[pictonguy]

I've had it in Naples. It was really good. When I made it at home, I went with sous vide. I liked the results.

Chuck roast, 172 for 16-20 hours.

That's fabulous and in NAPLES, how great is that! I'm jealous

Yes, I actually put a lot of thought into sous vide because of the obvious long cooking time that's required anyway. After doing a lot of research I decided that stove top would be my best bet and I'll give you my reasons why.

I do want to try sous vide for the obvious reason of cooking meat and aromatics, wine etc in a sealed bag for the simple reason it retains so much flavor and the precise tenderness as well, and I got a temp of 155F (68C) for 24 hours. I will make this again and I will use the sous vide method.

Anyway, the reason I decided to do it the traditional way first was for the obvious reason and that is, it stays true to it's origins and hopefully the results reflect that and then we have a benchmark to work from.

The issues that involve the sous vide method is because the onions need open-air reduction to achieve their signature jammy texture. Basically the sous vide method
does allow the onions to stay soft and sweet, but watery and Genovese sauce depends on evaporation and Maillard reactions, which require open heat.

When I do make it again with the sous vide method and to overcome this situation I'm going to remove the meat and then put the rest of the ingredients in a Dutch Oven that will then help reduce the liquid and actually begin the caramelization that really is necessary for this dish, in my opinion and then I'll just shred the meat, add it together and cook it for a little longer to a consistency that I think best works.

I suspect yours still tasted great, why wouldn't it really, but maybe this might be an option for you next time, regards.

 

[pictonguy]

Hey, PG. Growing up, we just called it ragu. I was surprised when I learned people put tomatoes in ragu. lol. We use left over roast beef cut into chunks and slowly brown it with the onions. Once a heavy, thick fond is created I add some beef broth and thyme. Maybe even some left over beef gravy if there is any. Simmer and let reduce by half. Then I put some very al dente pasta in it and finish it off until most of the broth is absorbed and you just have a thick beefy coating on the noodles. Coarse black pepper and parsley and you are good to go. I don't usually have parmesan with it. It's good just like that. Sometimes I'll add garlic but my mother never did. This is a timely post because I have short ribs planned for tomorrow so I get to have some Monday. I look forward to it as much as the ribs.
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Looks amazing Rock and that's a great family story and suspect there is an Italian connection to this dish, I think there is some Italian in your heritage, I might be wrong but though you said that once.

 

[Rocklobster]

I've never made it with a designated roasted beef. Usually just left over beef. Let us know how it turns out.

 

[pictonguy]

Here's a recipe that I put together last week for reference, every family will have some variation.

Ingredients (Serves 6)

2 kg sweet onions
500 g beef chuck, whole piece, not ground
100 ml extra virgin olive oil
100 ml dry white wine
1 celery stalk, finely chopped
1 carrot, finely chopped
Salt and black pepper, to taste
500 g ziti, candele, or mezzani pasta
Grated Pecorino Romano

I don't have those pasta's but I do have 500g's of paccheri pasta, so I'll use that.

 

[thymeless]

What I had didn't have jammy onions, just intensely beefy and tender meat and juice. Maybe the cook didn't scoop deeply to get any onions. This wasn't a high end place, just a small dive in an out of the way neighborhood. Probably 10 euros or less. When it came I was a little disappointed in the appearance, but the flavor convinced me.

I do think it needs a good deep sear before the sous vide and I seared my onion as well as it's too wet coming out of the bag and falls apart. Tastes great though.

 

[pictonguy]

What I had didn't have jammy onions, just intensely beefy and tender meat and juice. Maybe the cook didn't scoop deeply to get any onions. This wasn't a high end place, just a small dive in an out of the way neighborhood. Probably 10 euros or less. When it came I was a little disappointed in the appearance, but the flavor convinced me.

I do think it needs a good deep sear before the sous vide and I seared my onion as well as it's too wet coming out of the bag and falls apart. Tastes great though.

Ok, this is very insightful @thymeless. Apparently the onions essentially disappear but what actually happens is they transform. The onions break down into a silky, jammy sauce. There are no visible slices or chunks left and they just melt into the background, which i believe will add a lot of umami to this dish and suspect with some pecorino some more umami, ok now I'm getting excited. Thanks for elaborating.

 

[dragnlaw]

could this not be done in a slow cooker?

I only have 2 burners in a precarious spot so tying up one of them for that long is rather difficult.
I also don't have sous vide, but my cuisinart slow cooker can and does sear meat very well plus it is out of the way of grandchildren's sudden visits.

 

[pictonguy]

What makes this brand of pasta unique other than it's a higher end artisanal pasta is they grow their own wheat.

https://www.pastificiosvevo.it/

 

[Meryl]

I've never made this pasta before and I find it intriguing and @Meryl have you ever had it, made it, see it on menu's?

Anyway this recipe predates tomatoes in Italy and is originally from Naples and it's basically a hunk of meat and onions cooked for hours. I have some chuck and some brisket in the freezer, so I'm going to use that and I picked up some Spanish onions from my local go to farm stand.

I've never actually made the real "genovese", where the meat cooks for 4/5 hours or more, ends up so tender that it combines completely with the onion sauce and white wine reduction, making a perfect, delicious condiment for pasta.

Like all traditional dishes, there are so many variants and you will eat it differently in every single town you go to, in the South! You won't have it in Genova!

I sometimes just cook chunks of beef the "genovese way" , lots of onions, but l I let it cook for two hours, just enough for the pieces to be very tender. I add a little broth or water as I don't use that many onions to be able to make a natural sauce. . Sometimes I may serve it as a main course, with potatoes or vegetables, or perhaps use the sauce to season some pasta first, and then eat the beef chunks afterwards.

 

[Rocklobster]

.

 

[Meryl]

It's quite an easy recipe, the difficult part is cutting up all those onions!

 

[pictonguy]

A mandoline is what I'm going to use.

 

[Meryl]

Wise choice. I must buy one of those.

 

[pictonguy]

could this not be done in a slow cooker?

I only have 2 burners in a precarious spot so tying up one of them for that long is rather difficult.
I also don't have sous vide, but my cuisinart slow cooker can and does sear meat very well plus it is out of the way of grandchildren's sudden visits.

Yes you can and it would work very well but I think an initial cooking of the onion and veg is advisable and browning of the meat first. The ratio of onions to meat is 4:1 and that's a lot of onions and suspect it wouldn't fit in a slow cooker anyway. Cook those down with the veg for at least 30 minutes or more to collapse and make them soft, then deglaze with the wine, and brown the meat in batches if your slow cooker doesn't allow then just slow cook until the onions basically disappear would be my advise. I suspect your going to have to remove the cover to reduce the liquid as well, but I'm not sure, just suspect that might be the case.

 

[pictonguy]

This is the one I use the most, mine is a wider one though. It's a Benriner Japanese manolin and works pretty well.

 

[pictonguy]

@Meryl Yeah apparently a lot of families remove the meat and serve it as another course, that came up a lot when I researched it.

 

[Rocklobster]

Yeah. If you pared it down to it’s simplest origins, they probably cooked the hell out of a hunk of beef and served it along side with pasta in the drippings.