How to buy salmon for sushi?

[pictonguy]

What you say is true and it's one of the main reasons I don't like to support farmed fish.

Land-Based Recirculating Aquaculture Systems (RAS) is that solution and in Canada there's "sustainable blue" a company in NS and then there's Closed-Containment Floating Systems which are in the Ocean but fully contained and are in both NA and Norway. Also there's " Offshore Deep-Water Farms" and Ocean Farm 1 (SalMar, Norway) is an example of that. Aquaculture is here to stay.

 

[BAPyessir6]

Yes, when it comes to parasites. Health wise, no, the omega's are effected and wild is much better and salmon is the #1 source for omega 3's.

Atlantic Salmon is a protected species and not fished commercially so all Atlantic salmon available in the US and Canada is farm raised. Over 90% of all salmon consumed in Canada and the USA is farmed Atlantic salmon.

Wild Pacific salmon and parasites are quite common as well as other Pacific fish and it's law that all Pacific salmon is required to be frozen if sold for "raw consumption for sushi, sashimi or crudo" for example in order to kill parasites, otherwise you can buy it fresh.

So, you're saying that both farmed and wild caught salmon can both be used/marketed for sushi, but any wild caught salmon needs to be frozen by law whereas farmed salmon doesn't always need to be/never needs to be?

 

[pictonguy]

So, you're saying that both farmed and wild caught salmon can both be used/marketed for sushi, but any wild caught salmon needs to be frozen by law whereas farmed salmon doesn't always need to be/never needs to be?

Yes, that basically covers it.

 

[taxlady]

What you say is true and it's one of the main reasons I don't like to support farmed fish.

Land-Based Recirculating Aquaculture Systems (RAS) is that solution and in Canada there's "sustainable blue" a company in NS and then there's Closed-Containment Floating Systems which are in the Ocean but fully contained and are in both NA and Norway. Also there's " Offshore Deep-Water Farms" and Ocean Farm 1 (SalMar, Norway) is an example of that. Aquaculture is here to stay.

I have bought smoked salmon from recirculating aquaculture place, Afishionado in Nova Scotia. The salmon is far less flavourful. It might be my imagination, but I think I smelled a bit of that geosmin once. I usually get wild caught, smoked Pacific salmon. It's from Organic Ocean Seafood Inc.

 

[pictonguy]

I have bought smoked salmon from recirculating aquaculture place, Afishionado in Nova Scotia. The salmon is far less flavourful. It might be my imagination, but I think I smelled a bit of that geosmin once. I usually get wild caught, smoked Pacific salmon. It's from Organic Ocean Seafood Inc.

Yeah, my go to salmon that I like to cook and eat is fresh Pacific chinook or king salmon but it's pretty rare and only available in Ontario from around mid August to late October but there's farmed king as well, which I've never bought. I sometimes get sockeye or coho as well.

I do buy Atlantic but I'm pretty picky and Sobeys carries Sustainable Blue which is Canada's main RAS supplier and I have to order it special from Sobeys because it's generally not carried a lot, it's quite a bit more expensive. Regardless though Sobeys still offers sushi grade that isn't RAS which is reasonably priced and it's really hard to beat the mouth feel and umami of Atlantic salmon except with maybe chinook, imo.


For sushi or for raw recipes in Ontario I get farm raised Atlantic.

Back in 2004 chefs, restaurateurs, and sushi lovers protested against a new law that would require all raw salmon for sushi would need to be frozen and the law was over ruled and in Ontario we can serve raw and never frozen salmon. It was a pretty big deal at the time and I was heavily involved in that protest because back then I was into sushi a lot and serving it in the restaurant along with other raw salmon apps.

 

[taxlady]

Is there a noticeable change in the salmon that gets frozen? Or was there another reason people didn't want that law?

 

[taxlady]

Yeah, my go to salmon that I like to cook and eat is fresh Pacific chinook or king salmon but it's pretty rare and only available in Ontario from around mid August to late October but there's farmed king as well, which I've never bought. I sometimes get sockeye or coho as well.

I still have to figue out which ones have good flavour and which ones have wimpy flavour. The smoked one I get from the Pacific is sockeye. I have made gravad laks quite a few times. Sometimes it is really good and sometimes it's bland. But, salmon is expensive enough that I don't really want to experiment too much. I want tasty salmon for my money. I do want to try other kinds of salmon for gravad laks. So far, I avoid the ones described as "mild". I have had some very bland stuff from the Pacific, but that was 10 or 15 years ago. Any suggestions which types are tasty and which are bland?

 

[pictonguy]

Is there a noticeable change in the salmon that gets frozen? Or was there another reason people didn't want that law?

First of all most people, and I'm talking close to 99% of people in NA have never experienced a real sushi meal prepared by a classically trained itamae (sushi chef) and that experience is mostly from casual sushi chains, supermarkets and offerings like California rolls, spicy tuna and cream cheese everywhere, yeah, that's not sushi or made from people that have ever actually been in contact with a true sushi chef let alone be trained by one, that's a ritual to begin with.

Anyway eating raw seafood is the backbone of sushi and most raw doesn't have the same problem that Pacific salmon does and it's also why in Japan raw salmon was never used for sushi. Today it's mostly tuna, sea bream, flounder, sea urchin, squid, shrimp eel, that kind of thing and salmon now, but again not all sushi chefs use salmon, old habits are hard to change.

If salmon is used then the gold standard would be raw and never frozen. Freezing disrupts cell walls which results in moisture loss and the flesh softens, that can't be helped and it looses it's firmness and it's sheen and can feel watery, it's natural glo which is very important, dull fish is not as appealing and the simple luxurious mouthfeel difference is enough to fight for and that's what we did. And these differences hold true not just in salmon but all raw offerings and why it's preserved and it will always be this way.

 

[pictonguy]

I still have to figue out which ones have good flavour and which ones have wimpy flavour. The smoked one I get from the Pacific is sockeye. I have made gravad laks quite a few times. Sometimes it is really good and sometimes it's bland. But, salmon is expensive enough that I don't really want to experiment too much. I want tasty salmon for my money. I do want to try other kinds of salmon for gravad laks. So far, I avoid the ones described as "mild". I have had some very bland stuff from the Pacific, but that was 10 or 15 years ago. Any suggestions which types are tasty and which are bland?

The supermarket smoked salmon, you know those 6 or 12 perfect slices vac packed is not real smoked salmon, you know that right? They all use liquid smoke or some typeof smoke flavor, also the fat in salmon when it comes to taste is the most important factor and pacific salmon fat content is all over the map from almost none like sockeye almost feels dry to the buttery and luscious mouthfeel in king salmon. Basically that's the main reason why the differences in taste and of of course just bad processing and product from companies that are not into it for it's cultural significances but simply for profit. What is as close to king salmon as you can get with that buttery and luscious mouthfeel, that would be farmed Atlantic salmon.

 

[taxlady]

The supermarket smoked salmon, you know those 6 or 12 perfect slices vac packed is not real smoked salmon, you know that right? They all use liquid smoke or some typeof smoke flavor, also the fat in salmon when it comes to taste is the most important factor and pacific salmon fat content is all over the map from almost none like sockeye almost feels dry to the buttery and luscious mouthfeel in king salmon. Basically that's the main reason why the differences in taste and of of course just bad processing and product from companies that are not into it for it's cultural significances but simply for profit. What is as close to king salmon as you can get with that buttery and luscious mouthfeel, that would be farmed Atlantic salmon.

The sustainably caught salmon that I can easily get is chinook, coho, keta, and sockeye. I will be using it to make gravad laks so I'm not concerned with possible flavourings or liquid smoke of prepared salmon. This is salmon that most people would cook, but I don't eat cooked salmon. I'll keep my eye open for king salmon if I am somewhere that I trust has sustainably caught salmon.

 

[thymeless]

How do you feel about the "smokeless smoked" tuna.

For the readers confused about smokeless smoked, it is a non freezing treatment using carbon monoxide to kill the parasites. Changes the color quite a bit though.

Read the label on supermarket sushi. It's how most of that tuna is prepared.

 

[pictonguy]

How do you feel about the "smokeless smoked" tuna.

For the readers confused about smokeless smoked, it is a non freezing treatment using carbon monoxide to kill the parasites. Changes the color quite a bit though.

Read the label on supermarket sushi. It's how most of that tuna is prepared.

Yeah, that procedure is banned in Japan and the EU and apparently it doesn't kill parasites, but I'm not sure, just what I heard. Personally I prefer a more natural route with all food and if I want smoked I'll use wood.

 

[pictonguy]

Ok, so I looked into it a little further @thymeless. So carbon monoxide binds to myoglobin in muscle tissue, forming carboxymyoglobin, which is bright cherry red and highly stable. It basically masks oxidation where tuna for example would normally turn brown or dull as it aged. It's legal in Canada and the USA but like you said it needs to be disclosed. It's basically a visual illusion, interesting, thanks.

 

[Shining Wizard]

I’m not sure what the legal restrictions are where you live, but for me, I would not be spending the exorbitant amount of money on anything fishy for sashimi unless I was supremely confident in my ability to create something amazing. The price of sashimi grade salmon down here is more than twice the price of relative salmon that you would cook, and that produce is excellent. My fishmonger who has never let me down has always told me that sashimi grade salmon is a fraud.

 

[pictonguy]

I’m not sure what the legal restrictions are where you live, but for me, I would not be spending the exorbitant amount of money on anything fishy for sashimi unless I was supremely confident in my ability to create something amazing. The price of sashimi grade salmon down here is more than twice the price of relative salmon that you would cook, and that produce is excellent. My fishmonger who has never let me down has always told me that sashimi grade salmon is a fraud.

Well, your fish monger is correct. There's no legal designation called "sushi or sashimi grade" for fish anywhere really, not in Canada, the USA or where you are in Australia.

Is it wrong to ask your fish monger if the fish your about to buy is suitable for sushi by asking if it's "sushi grade" wrong? Hell no, that is exactly the information I want my fish monger to be able to convey to me and if they say sushi grade doesn't mean anything, then I would find a different fish monger. I rely on the experience and knowledge from my suppliers and when they screw around with definitions then I would question they're basic understanding of the situation and have less trust in what they're actually selling me.

Do you actually sell, serve or make sushi using raw fish?

 

[Shining Wizard]

@pictonguy
My GM wanted us to do a sashimi/sushi event one time. But he wasn’t prepared to pay for someone who actually knew what they were doing. He wanted us chefs to “just do it!”
I manoeuvred myself into the position of doing the rice and nori and let everyone do the fish, because I just wasn’t comfortable using the fish that was supplied.

And my fishmonger is not wrong. He has been telling me for years that if you are getting told that “sushi grade” salmon is available, it is probably not right. He has told me that anything called “sushi grade” in Australia wouldn’t even be considered in Japan.
I trust him, make of it what you will.

 

[pictonguy]

Maybe you didn't understand my post. I said your fish monger was correct and "sushi Grade" doesn't exist as a legal classification in pretty much all Countries and that includes Japan. I guess you just missed my point.

He has told me that anything called “sushi grade” in Australia wouldn’t even be considered in Japan.

Does your fish monger "not" supply fish and other seafood products for people or restaurants that want to make sushi, using raw product?

 

[Sir_Loin_of_Beef]

A friend wants me to buy salmon for some sushi she's making, but I'm unsure what to look for as I don't eat/make sushi.

Look for the package that says, AHI TUNA

 

[Shining Wizard]

Sorry @pictonguy
Must’ve been lost in translation!

But anyway, my fishmonger does sell his products to the small sashimi market here. We don’t have many truly trained chefs here who do sashimi anyway, and most of the restaurants that offer the Japanese food are mostly focused on the barbecue style with a bit of sushi and maybe a few pieces of sashimi. I do know that the first five star that I worked in had a very fine dining Japanese restaurant in there, but it was one of those places where the space was contracted out to a private company and our staff didn’t work in it. I couldn’t tell you where they sourced their fish.

 

[pictonguy]

I wonder what grade of fish your fish monger sells to those people who do make a living selling sushi and sashimi.