Mother-in-law

[Mad Cook]

I did read it, Andy... Some family members went through something similar several years ago. A dependent can only earn a certain amount per year - I think it's around $3500 or so. The sale of her house will put her income above that, so she'll have to file a return and pay taxes on that income. It's my understanding that she cannot be a qualifying dependent if her income exceeds that maximum amount. RB does need to see a professional, they can offer suggestions on where she can invest the $$ to reduce her taxable income. I could be wrong of course, just saying from experience with my own family members.

Just a thought. Might she be better off letting her house to tenants rather than selling it?

 

[Mad Cook]

I wish I had a button to push under each post as all of you have been much help to me.

I also thought about the tax deduction. We have not had a Dependant in years.

I will talk with my wife first chance i get and see what her opinion is. After all, she does everything around here and now this extra work. Its only been 4 days and my wife looks exhausted already. Hopefully she will calm down and take care of herself!
I am very lucky to have my wife. I am even more lucky my MIL and I get along very well.

Thanks everyone. I will keep y'all posted.

It's important, even if your MiL is frail, for her to feel she is helping you and your DW and not being a burden. Obviously what she can do will be dependent on her capabilities but even simple things like sitting and shelling the peas for dinner or laying the table for meals or folding small items of laundry will help her integrate into the household and feel useful. Involving her in decisions about what's for dinner or what colour to paint the sitting room will make her feel at home.

 

[Cheryl J]

Just a thought. Might she be better off letting her house to tenants rather than selling it?

That's up to RB, his family, and a professional to work out. I was only saying what I knew from my own family's circumstances.

 

[Cheryl J]

It's important, even if your MiL is frail, for her to feel she is helping you and your DW and not being a burden. Obviously what she can do will be dependent on her capabilities but even simple things like sitting and shelling the peas for dinner or laying the table for meals or folding small items of laundry will help her integrate into the household and feel useful. Involving her in decisions about what's for dinner or what colour to paint the sitting room will make her feel at home.

I so agree with this.

 

[Roll_Bones]

I base my comments on my experience with my own mother. Of course she should pay for her living expenses. And it's shouldn't be any one business except those people sharing the house hold. My mother (my husband's mother-in-law) lived with us for 5 years. My husband expected nothing from her but she would have no part of being a charity case living off "her kids". My mother wanted to pay way too much but he wanted her to pay nothing. In the we came up with $350 a month since one of her monthly dividends was $350. She also wanted to tip the house keeper that came once week because the lady changed her sheets and cleaned mom's bathroom. Later I found out the "tip" was $40 a week on top of what I was paying. Actually you shouldn't have to ask for a "contribution". She should volunteer something and open negotiations. If I moved in with my kids, I would expect to pay something for my lodging and I would tell him so.

This is what I hope will transpire before we have to have the "discussion".
I hope she makes the discussion happen herself.
I have known my MIL for 25 years and I have yet to see her offer to pay for anything. Ever.
Eat out, she never offers. Drive somewhere, she never offers to help with gas. My FIL was the same way. Thrifty is the word I will use here.
When he died, they found thousands of dollars hidden away at home and in financial institutions. Everyone thought he had nothing.
This knowledge is whats making this so hard.

It's important, even if your MiL is frail, for her to feel she is helping you and your DW and not being a burden. Obviously what she can do will be dependent on her capabilities but even simple things like sitting and shelling the peas for dinner or laying the table for meals or folding small items of laundry will help her integrate into the household and feel useful. Involving her in decisions about what's for dinner or what colour to paint the sitting room will make her feel at home.

She is already helping as much as we will let her. Since I do all the cooking, she can help my wife with the other chores and I see that to be no issue. Like I said before she is in very good shape for her age.

To everyone else that contributed to this thread I want to thank each one of you.
I now have ideas to work with. I am going to allow this to settle down (it already is) before we do anything. I will talk with my wife asap.

Just for the record. She still owns the house and its not up for sale yet.
Her financial shape and power of attorney is with my wifes older sister. She is also her "Executor". She (SIL) lives only a couple miles from us. So that part is covered.

 

[Mad Cook]

That's up to RB, his family, and a professional to work out. I was only saying what I knew from my own family's circumstances.

Sorry, Cheryl, I wasn't commenting on your circumstances. It was, as I said, just a thought that might be interesting to RB & his MiL.

I have been advised to let my late mother's house rather than selling it for the time being because the market is so down at the moment. Also it may be advantageous for her to have an income from the property rather than a lump sum in the bank. Obviously, I don't know how your tax system works.

 

[Andy M.]

Renting MIL's home carries another set of problems. While the income could be good, there is some level of effort to act as a landlord. That would probably fall to RB. If something in the home needs fixing, cleaning, replacement, etc. RB has to manage or do that work.

Selling the home and investing the proceeds may be a less stressful option.

 

[taxlady]

Renting MIL's home carries another set of problems. While the income could be good, there is some level of effort to act as a landlord. That would probably fall to RB. If something in the home needs fixing, cleaning, replacement, etc. RB has to manage or do that work.

Selling the home and investing the proceeds may be a less stressful option.

That's what I was thinking.

 

[Dawgluver]

Renting MIL's home carries another set of problems. While the income could be good, there is some level of effort to act as a landlord. That would probably fall to RB. If something in the home needs fixing, cleaning, replacement, etc. RB has to manage or do that work.

Selling the home and investing the proceeds may be a less stressful option.

Speaking as a new landlord trying to sell Mom's house from several states away, I agree. Everything that could possibly go wrong, did. The basement sprung a leak, all the plumbing had issues, the septic pump had to be replaced, the dishwasher died, etc. etc. Thankfully, my realtor/property manager was on top of things, but the cost of all the repairs pretty much ate up all the rent. Thankfully, we have an interested buyer.

 

[Kayelle]

This is what I hope will transpire before we have to have the "discussion".
I hope she makes the discussion happen herself.
I have known my MIL for 25 years and I have yet to see her offer to pay for anything. Ever.
Eat out, she never offers. Drive somewhere, she never offers to help with gas. My FIL was the same way. Thrifty is the word I will use here.
When he died, they found thousands of dollars hidden away at home and in financial institutions. Everyone thought he had nothing.
This knowledge is whats making this so hard.

Ykies RB!! No wonder you're so worried about this! It sounds that although she may be as sweet as she is, that she's used to having a free ride in life. She may be expecting a free ride once more. With the background you just described, you can be sure she won't be making an offer of paying her own way.

She is already helping as much as we will let her. Since I do all the cooking, she can help my wife with the other chores and I see that to be no issue. Like I said before she is in very good shape for her age.

To everyone else that contributed to this thread I want to thank each one of you.
I now have ideas to work with. I am going to allow this to settle down (it already is) before we do anything. I will talk with my wife asap.

Just for the record. She still owns the house and its not up for sale yet.
Her financial shape and power of attorney is with my wifes older sister. She is also her "Executor". She (SIL) lives only a couple miles from us. So that part is covered.

Without your wife having POA, it further reinforces my opinion in having all the sisters in on the conversation with her. You need them all in your corner, in case she needs convincing that the cost of her care isn't just another free ride.

 

[Sprout]

It sounds like you have some excellent advice here and some solid ideas of your own. The only thing I can add is from my own experience living in someone else's home. When you do nail the finances down, set a future date, somewhere in the 3-6 month range to revisit the issue. Pick a date and have each person mark it in a calendar. Then sit down again on that date and look over finances, with your bills etc and make sure everyone agrees that the amount is still appropriate and everyone is satisfied with the arrangement. Then set a date each year to look over things and adjust if needed.

I would also set aside a time each month to have a brief sit-down and talk about the general living situation. Equal-paying roommates can be tricky, but when you have one person contributing significantly more to the household than others, the power dynamic can make communication awkward. The homeowner worries that the extra person will think they're being tyrranical, the extra person worries that the homowners will think they're asking too much, or in worse scenarios, they actually do think those things about each other. Having regular times to bring up concerns and requests can really help keep the lines of communication open.

 

[Cooking Goddess]

...I have known my MIL for 25 years and I have yet to see her offer to pay for anything. Ever.
Eat out, she never offers. Drive somewhere, she never offers to help with gas.....

Make sure up front she fully understands that due to your own financial needs she will be expected to cover any costs her residence under your roof entails. Due to penny-pinching relatives in my own family I'll guess your MIL won't part with one thin dime that you can't account for her spending. Especially with a daughter other than your wife in charge of finances for your MIL. You may be in for being called heartless and unfeeling, but if you don't stand your ground right from the start I'm afraid you might be using your money for an awful lot of her expenses.

 

[Roll_Bones]

Renting MIL's home carries another set of problems. While the income could be good, there is some level of effort to act as a landlord. That would probably fall to RB. If something in the home needs fixing, cleaning, replacement, etc. RB has to manage or do that work.
Selling the home and investing the proceeds may be a less stressful option.

Selling is the only option for me. I have one house to maintain and do not need another much older house to concern myself with.

Ykies RB!! No wonder you're so worried about this! It sounds that although she may be as sweet as she is, that she's used to having a free ride in life. She may be expecting a free ride once more. With the background you just described, you can be sure she won't be making an offer of paying her own way.

Without your wife having POA, it further reinforces my opinion in having all the sisters in on the conversation with her. You need them all in your corner, in case she needs convincing that the cost of her care isn't just another free ride.

She is sweet, but thrifty, just like my FIL was. I don't think she expects a free ride, as she offered to use the proceeds from her home sale, to buy another larger home for all three of us.
So, for now I will assume she is willing?

Make sure up front she fully understands that due to your own financial needs she will be expected to cover any costs her residence under your roof entails. Due to penny-pinching relatives in my own family I'll guess your MIL won't part with one thin dime that you can't account for her spending. Especially with a daughter other than your wife in charge of finances for your MIL. You may be in for being called heartless and unfeeling, but if you don't stand your ground right from the start I'm afraid you might be using your money for an awful lot of her expenses.

I have always known both my inlaws were extremely cheap. Just how cheap remains to be seen. I guess we will find out.
I think my wife might not realize this contribution to be as important as I do. So, I need her on board more now than ever.

Note: I have discussed this more with you guys than my wife. I guess I am hoping it resolves itself. Procrastinating I am.

 

[Addie]

She is sweet, but thrifty, just like my FIL was. I don't think she expects a free ride, as she offered to use the proceeds from her home sale, to buy another larger home for all three of us.So, for now I will assume she is willing?

That should not be an offer you should accept. As generous as it seems, you and your wife will be living under her roof and by her rules. Should you have a falling out, where will you and your wife go? She has two other places she could go to, even if it to sleep on their couch. Let her invest the monies from the sale of her home.

 

[Roll_Bones]

She is sweet, but thrifty, just like my FIL was. I don't think she expects a free ride, as she offered to use the proceeds from her home sale, to buy another larger home for all three of us.So, for now I will assume she is willing?

That should not be an offer you should accept. As generous as it seems, you and your wife will be living under her roof and by her rules. Should you have a falling out, where will you and your wife go? She has two other places she could go to, even if it to sleep on their couch. Let her invest the monies from the sale of her home.

The proceeds from her home sale would only be enough to provide a down payment on a bigger house and that was the intention. It was my idea at first, but my wife told me her mother also suggested it.
You see before my MIL came to live here, we were thinking about moving. When we found out she was coming, we flirted with the idea of the down payment.
It seems we can do okay right here. Of course its just been a week or so, but it look like it should work out fine. I sure hope so.

I do agree with you in principle. It should be her money, not a down payment for our house.
She can then have more financial freedom. That would be a good thing for all of us.
Thanks Addie.

 

[Addie]

The proceeds from her home sale would only be enough to provide a down payment on a bigger house and that was the intention. It was my idea at first, but my wife told me her mother also suggested it.
You see before my MIL came to live here, we were thinking about moving. When we found out she was coming, we flirted with the idea of the down payment.
It seems we can do okay right here. Of course its just been a week or so, but it look like it should work out fine. I sure hope so.

I do agree with you in principle. It should be her money, not a down payment for our house.
She can then have more financial freedom. That would be a good thing for all of us.
Thanks Addie.

There are more family fallouts over money, than anything else. More marriages fail over money issues. Money says power. And power is a slippery street to be on. Who ever has the most money, has the most power.

Whatever way you decide to settle your money problems in having your mother-in-law living with you, you and your wife have to be up front and honest in what you expect from her and why. From my own personal experience, just having my son eating here two or three days a week has made a big difference in just how much food I have left at the end of the month. I told him that if he was going to continue to show up for supper, then he had to kick in for the extra expense. I also expect him to return any money he borrows from me. Any financial exchanges between us I am right up front with him. Saves a lot of arguments. And I still have a son that visits me often.

 

[Roll_Bones]

Update:
Well my wait and see approach has proven effective. My MIL asked me yesterday about the arrangement and asked me how much did I think she should contribute.
I told her I needed some time to look at the extra cost and would let her know. I want to be fair.
Now the dilemma, as to the answer.

I think this "price" or contribution is what has deterred me so far and still does bother me.

 

[Andy M.]

A thought on the amount. Do your calculations for utilities and other expenses and determine an amount. Then make it a round number. e.g. your best estimates come to $326.42 a month. Round it up to $400. (The next $100) and go with that. There are bound to be misc. items that pop up from time to time and the extra will cover it. Plan with MIL to revisit it in six months when it could go up or down.

If you're a numbers geek like me, you have a record of every payment you've made so a historical basis is not a problem. Even if you don't, most utilities have your payment and usage history online for you to download.

 

[Aunt Bea]

Update:
Well my wait and see approach has proven effective. My MIL asked me yesterday about the arrangement and asked me how much did I think she should contribute.
I told her I needed some time to look at the extra cost and would let her know. I want to be fair.
Now the dilemma, as to the answer.

I think this "price" or contribution is what has deterred me so far and still does bother me.

It is good that you are having a tough time with this, that proves you want to be fair.

The only thought I have is that it is better to go a little high than to go low and be festering and fussing if you end up in the hole or nickle and dime your MIL over every little thing.

A million small expenses come up and it is hard to figure them all in. Things like parking for appointments, special food items or toiletries that only your MIL will use, etc...

Also the higher you make it up front the less often you will have to renegotiate. I'm sure if a surplus develops you will find a way to even things up.

Good luck!

 

[taxlady]

I'm glad to read that your MIL brought it up.