Panettone

[wellwellwell]

I have some questions about Panettone.

1. One recipe I'm following (for those of us who haven't yet invested in a Pasta Madre/Lievito Madre) calls for a Biga. That recipe doesn't call for Diastatic Malt Powder, but another recipe of hers does call for DSM. Would it ruin the recipe if I added .6% (of the total flour) DSM (same ratio as her other recipe)?

2. "Pasta" Mandarina / Candied Citrus Peels : I saw an Italian chef (a "heavy hitter", at that) simply take a Mandarin, cut it up, pour sugar over it, let it rest for half an hour (until the sugar dissolved--and, I guess, the Mandarin was somewhat macerated), then boil it down to a paste.

He, then, said that this same process could be followed for lemon and orange "pastas" : I thought that citrus peels had to boiled to remove bitterness!

Could it be, then, that, for the candied citrus peels (yes, different than "pastas"), boiling is not necessary for removal of bitterness?
I'm actually trying it out right now with a couple strips of lemon peel, and will share how it turns out.
I just don't want to have to go through the process if it's not actually necessary--lots of the essential oils are poured out with the water changes.

That should start the discussion.

 

[wellwellwell]

I just bit in to one of the lemon peels I'm candying, and it did taste a bit "bitter", but I'm not entirely sure it's from the pith; I think it may just be from the overwhelming amount of lemon essential oil still present (not removed by water changes). hah

 

[dragnlaw]

Have no clue on the first part of your post as I don't bake that much.

As to the pith, I honestly don't understand why people say it is bitter. I often munch off the pith of oranges and grapefruits. Oranges especially, to me, is not bitter. In my opinion it is the oils in the skins that cotains the bitter. JMHO
However, that being said, when I do candy them I try to get the skins pretty clean from the pith.

 

[wellwellwell]

Have no clue on the first part of your post as I don't bake that much.

As to the pith, I honestly don't understand why people say it is bitter. I often munch off the pith of oranges and grapefruits. Oranges especially, to me, is not bitter. In my opinion it is the oils in the skins that cotains the bitter. JMHO
However, that being said, when I do candy them I try to get the skins pretty clean from the pith.

I just ate the other peels, and, whether it is the essential oils or not, I think I have to go ahead and boil them--last time I boiled them, they had the typical candied citrus peel flavor, but they're pretty "strong" tasting now. hah

 

[dragnlaw]

LOL, yup, sometimes the 'old way' is the best way.

 

[wellwellwell]

Well, my Pro Series Kitchen Aid was BROKEN by the Biga.

I must have done something wrong. I had to throw the Biga in the fridge, because I couldn't finish cooking that night (I'd started the Biga in the morning, and the time for fermentation was over that night), and I tried to proceed with it COLD.

I had no idea. I was not careful. I thought the machine would turn off (as it has before, if memory serves) if the work load was too much for it.

Regretful. I'll have to send 'er in when I can afford it.

 

[dragnlaw]

So sorry to hear that! How frustrating/annoying and deflating. Just during busy Christmas cooking season.

Good part is you still have your arms and wrists. Pretend it's Pioneer Days, with your arms and wrists getting the work out.

And give that appliance a big hug when it finally comes back.
You might want to check on how much a repair will be while at the same time look to Christmas Kitchen Appliance sales. .. might be cheaper.

 

[wellwellwell]

So sorry to hear that! How frustrating/annoying and deflating. Just during busy Christmas cooking season.

Good part is you still have your arms and wrists. Pretend it's Pioneer Days, with your arms and wrists getting the work out.

And give that appliance a big hug when it finally comes back.
You might want to check on how much a repair will be while at the same time look to Christmas Kitchen Appliance sales. .. might be cheaper.

It is my understanding, though, that there would be a temperature issue, because of the butter.

 

[wellwellwell]

You might want to check on how much a repair will be while at the same time look to Christmas

Well, I did check prices--that was how I could have said "when I can afford it".

Kitchen Appliance sales. .. might be cheaper.

There is a relatively slim potential difference ($25) between sending it in and buying a new one at Black Friday sales prices--I think it's worth taking the chance of it being substantially cheaper to send it in (when I can afford it) .

 

[dragnlaw]

yeah, that's tough.
I decided to give away a good Singer Sewing Machine knowing just sending it for cleaning was around $125 plus add in another $200 for repair. Then there was the 3 week wait.
I purchased a Singer machine on Amazon for $200, free delivery and got it the next day. Finished up my project in 2 days instead of a month.

 

[wellwellwell]

Can Panettone be made by hand? You'd think so, since it and other similar doughs (brioche) must've been created before we had modern machinery, right? Did they just use wooden tools? The butter will melt, ruining the dough, if you try to do it by hand, right?

 

[dragnlaw]

Copied from Simply Recipes

Making Panettone Without a Stand Mixer​

Yes, it's possible, but it is a workout (just eat more panettone later). Our reader Kathleen has had success kneading this dough by hand. "I don't have a stand mixer and do the whole process by hand. I let it rise longer in the fridge (about 12 hours) and then also let it rise outside of the fridge for a few hours, as well before putting the fruit in and shaping it. That makes for a dough that is well aerated but also easy to work with."

Panettone, a labour of love you can read that recipe here how one person did it.

 

[wellwellwell]

Copied from Simply Recipes

Making Panettone Without a Stand Mixer​

Yes, it's possible, but it is a workout (just eat more panettone later). Our reader Kathleen has had success kneading this dough by hand. "I don't have a stand mixer and do the whole process by hand. I let it rise longer in the fridge (about 12 hours) and then also let it rise outside of the fridge for a few hours, as well before putting the fruit in and shaping it. That makes for a dough that is well aerated but also easy to work with."

Panettone, a labour of love you can read that recipe here how one person did it.

Here's a "handy" video (lol)

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D796ZupzMvoI%26t%3D149&ved=2ahUKEwimsJqUqP2JAxVHIkQIHXRkE9YQ-NANegQINhAC&usg=AOvVaw0JAlzBOeA2Fe_-uvOJLipw

I think this might work even better if I used a dough scraper to keep my hand from touching the dough too much.

 

[dragnlaw]

The butter will melt, ruining the dough, if you try to do it by hand, right?

I've never made Panettone, so I can't help you there.

ahh was typing as you posted, OK will watch.

 

[dragnlaw]

Amazing video! Very well shown for not only using the bench scraper but the slap and fold method. This method is used in other bread recipes a French Baguette comes to mind for that.
Thank you for posting that.

 

[wellwellwell]

Amazing video! Very well shown for not only using the bench scraper but the slap and fold method. This method is used in other bread recipes a French Baguette comes to mind for that.
Thank you for posting that.

I just want to make sure I don't touch the dough much.
All the pros explaining how to make it warn about the dough getting too warm during the mixing process--much more would that be an issue when mixing by hand!
A couple call for measuring temperature during mixing process--one specific one I recall said to keep the dough within a two degrees Celsius range!
Therefore, actually handling the dough would be a no-no.

 

[wellwellwell]

I just want to make sure I don't touch the dough much.
All the pros explaining how to make it warn about the dough getting too warm during the mixing process--much more would that be an issue when mixing by hand!
A couple call for measuring temperature during mixing process--one specific one I recall said to keep the dough within a two degrees Celsius range!
Therefore, actually handling the dough would be a no-no.

@dragnlaw Though this guy does a brioche (burger bun) dough all by hand...

 

[dragnlaw]

His touching of the dough was absolutely minimal, to me it was done perfectly. LOL and I'm sure with a lot of practice!
Matter of fact, you will probably get better results by hand than with the mixer. The slap, fold and turn is classic. IMHO your dough hook can't do that.
The wood board is also perfect for that type of kneading. The stretch with the heel of the hand, your butter will be well incorporated without melting.

 

[dragnlaw]

one specific one I recall said to keep the dough within a two degrees Celsius range!

Don't start getting ahem.. anal(?) over all the different instructions you find. Stick with one, otherwise you will go crazy trying to fit them into one cohesive recipe. If you don't like the results then try another one, and so on... you will eventually find the one that works for you.

 

[wellwellwell]

Don't start getting ahem.. anal(?) over all the different instructions you find. Stick with one, otherwise you will go crazy trying to fit them into one cohesive recipe. If you don't like the results then try another one, and so on... you will eventually find the one that works for you.

I try to learn from everyone! It's interesting, the variations you find between all of these professionals each of whom has fabulous results.