Pork/beef burger 150F temp?

[caseydog]

So, uh. . .is there any pasteurization chart that anyone knows of that uses ground beef in its charts? I found many that use roasts, specific cuts of beef/pork or chicken/poultry, etc, but I'm unsure if I need to find pasteurization time/temps for specifically ground meats.

I've heard Douglasbaldwin is really good (the first one), but when looking at it, holding something at 140 for like 30 minutes seems like a heck of a long time to pasteurize, say, a burger. I don't know if my coals can stay hot that long.

Trying to hold meat at one steady temp for 30 minutes is really hard to do, unless you use sous vide. With sous vide, you can hold beef to up to 3 hours at medium rare before the meat texture starts to get wonky. On a grill, the coals are well above the 130F (for example) that you want to hold for 30 minutes, so the meat will keep cooking.

There are sous vide charts that give you time and temperature for your water-bath for different levels of doneness. The pork tenderloin in my photo above was cooked sous vide at 135F for 2 hours, then quickly seared with a kitchen torch. Still pink inside, but perfectly safe.

CD

 

[caseydog]

@dragnlaw and @caseydog, I've just been reading about EU and Italian safety guidelines, I'm getting a little confused with contradictory data. Basically, it seems that the recommended cooking temperature for pork ranges from 65C to 80C,depending on the cut.

Lean pork like pork loin and tenderloin should be on the low end, like 65C, or it will dry out. "Red" pork, like pork butt/shoulder needs to go up a lot higher so the intramuscular fat can render, or it will be like eating a tire. Shoulder needs to cook low and slow, like smoking or braising.

The USDA only recommends internal temperatures for food safety, not what will be the most pleasant to eat. The USDA recommends 145F/63C for safely cooked pork. But, I know from years of experience that a pork butt/shoulder roast needs to be cooked for hours to an internal temperature around 200F/94C to become tender.

It's like beef... you cook a steak hot and fast, and leave it pink inside. You cook a big roast low and slow, so the fat can render and make the beef tender and juicy.

CD

 

[BAPyessir6]

Trying to hold meat at one steady temp for 30 minutes is really hard to do, unless you use sous vide. With sous vide, you can hold beef to up to 3 hours at medium rare before the meat texture starts to get wonky. On a grill, the coals are well above the 130F (for example) that you want to hold for 30 minutes, so the meat will keep cooking.

There are sous vide charts that give you time and temperature for your water-bath for different levels of doneness. The pork tenderloin in my photo above was cooked sous vide at 135F for 2 hours, then quickly seared with a kitchen torch. Still pink inside, but perfectly safe.

CD

I do have a sous vide! Is it. . .practical to use on burgers? Has anyone here done sous vide burgers, or would that just be strange? (Sous vide to X temp, then finish on the grill/in a pan)

 

[Andy M.]

I do have a sous vide! Is it. . .practical to use on burgers? Has anyone here done sous vide burgers, or would that just be strange? (Sous vide to X temp, then finish on the grill/in a pan)

I don't remember the temp. I use here. I finished it in a cast iron skillet.

 

[Andy M.]

The shortcoming of sous vide is if you're cooking for two and those two want burgers at different doneness levels. SO likes her burger with NO RED OR PINK! I like mine as above. So here's what to do. First cook the burger that you want more well done. Reduce the water temp to the lower level for a medium burger and cook the second burger with both burgers in the water. The second cook will keep the well done burger warm while the medium burger cooks. Then you can sear both burgers together. The extra time in the water bath for the well done burger won't have a negative effect on the well done burger.

 

[caseydog]

I do have a sous vide! Is it. . .practical to use on burgers? Has anyone here done sous vide burgers, or would that just be strange? (Sous vide to X temp, then finish on the grill/in a pan)

I've never done a burger in my sous vide rig. For one burger, it may not practical.

Although, if I wanted a medium rare burger, I would do a sous vide and sear for safety reasons. Ground beef is a bit trickier than a solid cut, like a steak.

CD

 

[taxlady]

@dragnlaw and @caseydog, I've just been reading about EU and Italian safety guidelines, I'm getting a little confused with contradictory data. Basically, it seems that the recommended cooking temperature for pork ranges from 65C to 80C,depending on the cut.

With pork there are two different safety factors to consider. One is trichina. If trichina still exists in pork in the place you are living, you should look up the ways to kill the larvae in the meat, including what temperature will make it safe from trichina. The other safety factor is microbial contamination and then the temperatures and times are what you need to consider. Also remember that the microorganisms are usually from surface contamination. That's why a rare steak can be safe when the outside of the steak is cooked good and hot. But, ground meat will have any surface contamination mixed all through the meat from the grinding process, so the inside needs to have its microorganisms killed too.

 

[caseydog]

The other safety factor is microbial contamination and then the temperatures and times are what you need to consider. Also remember that the microorganisms are usually from surface contamination. That's why a rare steak can be safe when the outside of the steak is cooked good and hot. But, ground meat will have any surface contamination mixed all through the meat from the grinding process, so the inside needs to have its microorganisms killed too.

Yep. That's what makes ground meat trickier. Bacteria on the outside can get into the inside when you grind it. A non sterile grinder can contaminate it, too.

I personally don't like the texture of a medium rare burger. My preference is medium well. But, if I did like my burgers medium rare, I would definitely cook them sous vide, then put a quick sear on them.

My mom was born in 1934, and her mom was born in 1910. My mom overcooked everything because when she was growing up, food safety wasn't what it is today. The first time I cooked a pork tenderloin for my parents and it was still a little pink, my mom freaked out, but my dad, being a chemical engineer, understood the time/temperature thing and told mom it was safe to eat. She loved it. She just had to hear my dad tell her it was okay.

CD

 

[dragnlaw]

Meryl, I think I would look for whether or not your Italian pork in free of parasites, meaning the trichina.


BAByessir, you are confusing holding a temperature to a certain degree in a sous vide, which you can do without the meat overcooking.

You cannot do that on a grill. If you hold it for those 30 minutes on a grill the temperature is going to rise and your meat will keep on cooking. (or whatever length of time was suggested for the sous vide)

(egads, here we go again, I wrote this around 4:30 and it's now 7:30 - wish I could blame it on the wine... but I haven't had any! )

 

[caseydog]

I wrote this around 4:30 and it's now 7:30 - wish I could blame it on the wine... but I haven't had any! )

Maybe the problem is that you haven't had any wine.

CD

 

[dragnlaw]

I'm fixing that, but have the gym tomorrow so....

 

[Meryl]

Wow, all this "temperature" discussion has really made me realise that I have never really taken it into consideration. I've never been good with numbers! Hated Mathematics at school. Maybe it's because I've always preferred, in general, all meat and fish products 'well-cooked', so I've never bothered with temperatures. I ve learned from this thread now that I've been doing it all wrong!
It's just something I've become used to, a matter of personal taste, I suppose, but I'm sure it's to do with my upbringing too. My husband used to tease me about this, he loved medium rare beef steaks but I always cooked mine for longer! He would tell me to turn off the gas and I always said: "just a little bit more" .
My mum has always had this habit of worrying about cooking meat and fish well, but the result is that we end up overcooking, missing out on the "real taste!" I know that we longer need to worry about contamination, everything is controlled thoroughly now, but "bad habits are difficult to break".
I definitely don't eat anything raw, by the way. Years ago, while eating at a restaurant on holiday at a beach resort, we ordered a seafood starter which included"cannolicchi" (razor shells/clams?). I didn't know they are eaten raw. So when I saw these little things moving around in my plate, I looked in horror at my husband and he immediately knew what he had to do. He asked the waiter to have them cooked for me, exceptionally. I'll never forget the puzzled/annoyed look on the waiter's face!

When it comes to cooking pork, I usually do a pot-roast using either shoulder, butt or tenderloin, whatever I find on offer at the supermarket. Cooking time about two hours.

Yes @taxlady , every now and then, due to thorough checks, cases of trichinosis are discovered in wild game, boars and pigs, but the safety controls ensure that these never arrive on the market. Imported meat is examined by the PIF (BORDER Inspection) and then further inspections in Italy.
I've found an article though just now, about a few cases of trichinosis transmitted to humans a couple of years ago, but it seems that the cause was the consumption of wild boar. Not sure if it was hunted or bought, I'll have to put on my Sherlock hat and investigate more.

 

[caseydog]

Wow, all this "temperature" discussion has really made me realise that I have never really taken it into consideration. I've never been good with numbers! Hated Mathematics at school. Maybe it's because I've always preferred, in general, all meat and fish products 'well-cooked', so I've never bothered with temperatures. I ve learned from this thread now that I've been doing it all wrong!
It's just something I've become used to, a matter of personal taste, I suppose, but I'm sure it's to do with my upbringing too. My husband used to tease me about this, he loved medium rare beef steaks but I always cooked mine for longer! He would tell me to turn off the gas and I always said: "just a little bit more" .
My mum has always had this habit of worrying about cooking meat and fish well, but the result is that we end up overcooking, missing out on the "real taste!" I know that we longer need to worry about contamination, everything is controlled thoroughly now, but "bad habits are difficult to break".
I definitely don't eat anything raw, by the way. Years ago, while eating at a restaurant on holiday at a beach resort, we ordered a seafood starter which included"cannolicchi" (razor shells/clams?). I didn't know they are eaten raw. So when I saw these little things moving around in my plate, I looked in horror at my husband and he immediately knew what he had to do. He asked the waiter to have them cooked for me, exceptionally. I'll never forget the puzzled/annoyed look on the waiter's face!

When it comes to cooking pork, I usually do a pot-roast using either shoulder, butt or tenderloin, whatever I find on offer at the supermarket. Cooking time about two hours.

Yes @taxlady , every now and then, due to thorough checks, cases of trichinosis are discovered in wild game, boars and pigs, but the safety controls ensure that these never arrive on the market. Imported meat is examined by the PIF (BORDER Inspection) and then further inspections in Italy.
I've found an article though just now, about a few cases of trichinosis transmitted to humans a couple of years ago, but it seems that the cause was the consumption of wild boar. Not sure if it was hunted or bought, I'll have to put on my Sherlock hat and investigate more.

My former SIL would not eat any meat that wasn't cooked to well done. So, I made it a goal of mine to find a way to make a really good well done steak, and she told me that my steaks were the best she ever had. Personally, I couldn't make myself eat a well done steak, but as a cook, I took it as a challenge to make her a great steak... well done.

I'm not crazy about raw food, either. I love fried oysters, but raw oysters just don't work for me.

I am sure that EU cooking standards are as good as USDA cooking standards. Trichinosis in consumer pork in the EU is probably non-existent, as it is here. But, any meat that is hunted in the wild can have issues not found in farm-raised meats. The only wild game I hunt is ducks and geese. Poultry has to be thoroughly cooked whether it is wild or farm raised. None of my guns are capable of hunting wild pigs/boars, or even deer.

CD

 

[Meryl]

Everyone I know seems to love raw oysters, I tried once, never again!

 

[caseydog]

Everyone I know seems to love raw oysters, I tried once, never again!

The only way I can eat a raw oyster is if I drown it in hot sauce. Even then, I don't really want to eat it. I've only eaten them when my friends put extreme peer pressure on me.

"There, I ate the #$%&@# thing, leave me alone!!!"

CD

 

[dragnlaw]

I can only eat about 3 maybe 4 max. Just the tiniest drop of lemon juice. DIL likes with a tiny drop of a hot sauce. She could probably eat a lot more than my 3 but as it is me that's buying them, LOL I ain't gonna find out!
They have a clean ocean smell - but not dirty docks at low tide. That smell is transferred into taste.

 

[caseydog]

I can only eat about 3 maybe 4 max. Just the tiniest drop of lemon juice. DIL likes with a tiny drop of a hot sauce. She could probably eat a lot more than my 3 but as it is me that's buying them, LOL I ain't gonna find out!
They have a clean ocean smell - but not dirty docks at low tide. That smell is transferred into taste.

Oysters down here come from the Gulf of Mexico. Warm water oysters are larger than cold water oysters, but taste pretty much the same.

I love NOLA grilled oysters. Cooked over fire, drenched in garlic butter.

I also love the classic Oysters Rockefeller, also originally created in New Orleans (in 1889).

CD

 

[caseydog]

We went from burgers to oysters. It's funny how forum threads take on a life of their own.

CD

 

[BAPyessir6]

Everyone I know seems to love raw oysters, I tried once, never again!

When my mom was like 15 in the 70s, she took a job at Red Lobster, and the workers had a "hazing" process which involved eating like a dozen (obviously raw) oysters, just slurp and gulp. She ended up not doing it, but cause of that, everyone kinda kicked her. One of the guys who ate raw oysters daily got really sick once from it (food poisoning?) so she's glad she didn't have to pee pressure.

 

[Meryl]

Oysters down here come from the Gulf of Mexico. Warm water oysters are larger than cold water oysters, but taste pretty much the same.

View attachment 73884

I love NOLA grilled oysters. Cooked over fire, drenched in garlic butter.

View attachment 73885

I also love the classic Oysters Rockefeller, also originally created in New Orleans (in 1889).

CD

Now those oysters look really appetizing! I've never tried them cooked, we don't often find them in stores here , we live inland very far from the sea.