Second proofing length of time and why

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Boskin

Assistant Cook
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Oct 6, 2021
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melbourne
Hi
I want soft and fluffy baking products, e.g. donuts, nutella brioche, other bread.

how long to we proof the second time and why??

made nutella brioche a few times before. the instructions say to proof a second time for a shorter time e.g.20 min from memory. i'm unclear on why some lengths of time are short like this, while others are longer (until dough doubles). i'm referring to the second proofing time length. if our goal is soft and fluffy, isn't it better to proof the second time for longer as well - rises higher before oven, then rises even higher in the oven, means more air and is bigger, and is more soft and fluffy.

anyone get it?
 
Never been clear on the two rises.

Just know that sometimes when I do the second rise too long, it gets bubbles that are too big, seems to get dry results when baked. Once it even collapsed. ok, I admit, it was a really long time, but i finished punching it down again, let it rise for a short period (watched my timing) and popped it in the oven. It was fine (bread).
 
the proof time of first and second depends on what the baked stuff is.


there is no one "xx minutes first" and "yy minutes second"


baking/cooking 'by the clock' is guaranteed to produce failure 99 of 100 attempts.
 
well, to my thinking, if i let it rise as much as possible, but so it doesn't collapse in oven later, then will turn out fluffiest. but we don't know.


perhaps it's more a matter of proper kneading and gluten development so it's stretchy, and therefore rises higher. don't know. maybe too, if you odn't wait for the dough to spread out and give way when spreading it out thin (let it rest 20 mins if tight) you won't get fluffy later
 
thanks for tips


but yeah, it's unclear to us.


why and how far is best for the second rise, for ultimate fluffy.
same take the second rise quite high, others just some
 
read thru the link by GotGarlic.

proofing has more than one singular purpose.

"large" bubbles indicate the dough has over-proofed or was not "punched down" for a second proof.

in big broad brush strokes . . . allowing the dough to proof to max height is good, punch it down, let it rise again. this process indicates a maximum CO2 content - that co2 will expand nicely when heated - aka "oven spring"

the biggest influence on "rising / proofing" is temperature.
but but but . . . the specific recipe will control how temperature will affect the rising time.
 
Also, proofing allows the ueast to multiply, imparting more flavor into the bread. Kneading to window pain texture develops the gluten. First rise incorpoates CO2 into the dough, and relaxes it a bit. The 2nd rise creates the bubbles that difine the crumb, and develop flavor. Adding diastatic malt gived the yeast more food, allowing the yeast to work more efficeintly. It also helps the crust brown more unifrmly. Baking the bread with a pan of water in the oven also creates a better crust. The moisture content of the raw dough should make white bread dough just slightly sticky. The fat content (butter, or oil) makes the baked bread tender and moist. If the bread cooks too hot, it will have a tough crust, and may not be cooked throgh.
Whole wheat and multi grain breads nerd more moisture because of the bran. It should be sticky when handled.

Hope this helps.

Seeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North
 
read thru the link by GotGarlic.

proofing has more than one singular purpose.

"large" bubbles indicate the dough has over-proofed or was not "punched down" for a second proof.

in big broad brush strokes . . . allowing the dough to proof to max height is good, punch it down, let it rise again. this process indicates a maximum CO2 content - that co2 will expand nicely when heated - aka "oven spring"

the biggest influence on "rising / proofing" is temperature.
but but but . . . the specific recipe will control how temperature will affect the rising time.


i'ts a good link, but, for the second proof (before oven bake), how much should we let it rise? so it's 25% bigger, 50% bigger, or even doubled? for soft and fluffy
 
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STEP SEVEN: Final Proof/Panning

This stage gives the dough its final rise. The ideal situation for proofing is a protected environment (no drafts) at 75°F to 78°F (24°C to 26°C). The dough is still fermenting, yet at a slower rate than during the first and “official” fermentation stage. Taking advantage of this, the baker pushes the volume of the loaf to approximately 85 percent of its full capacity.

Judging the extent of a proof is a skill learned over time; even experienced bakers find it tricky to do on sight alone. A good test: make an impression in the dough with a finger; the dough should slowly push back, but it does not completely recover its original shape. A valuable exercise for a beginner is to mix a batch of dough, shape it, and observe the complete proofing process until the dough collapses. Touching the dough at different stages of the proof will inform your senses of what to look for during the proofing cycle.
 
for a bread dough - I look for about 25% on second rise. I judge by the dough puffing up to fill out the corners of the pan and a light tension on the surface.


less for a pizza dough, for example.
 
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The first rising is called fermentation. It literally ferments the dough creating alcohol from the yeast that evaporates. If you stop there you will get large "holes" in the crum like you see with ciabatta or some "artisanal" loafs. Punch down and the second rising is called proofing because it "proves" the yeast is still active and the bread proves to be ready to bake. It produces the sort of crum you would get in a commercially baked French or Italian loaf.

I ferment in a bowl and I know it is done when the dough fills the bowl. Then I either form the loaf and bake or punch down for a proof after which I bake. I consider it proofed when the loaf achieves the size I expect based on what I am baking. It is a matter of experience.
 
One thing I've read is that the flavor our commercially prepared yeast is not that good as it activates. So the first rise is at least somewhat about working through the initial generations of yeast to later generations that will taste better not having been made dormant. The second rise continues this but the punch down redistributes the yeast and it's food sources as well as knocking out the unwanted bubbles.

Chinese recipes will often knead dough a second time to thoroughly degas the dough to create a very even fine crumb and the steamed skin will be smooth, not warty with gas bubbles. But with a nice yeasted flavor.
 
Commercial starters have to be maintained like any starter. As you remove some of it to bake you replace it with fresh flour and water if needed. While the flavor the starters impart to the loaf changes a little over time, primarily from local yeasts getting into it, you can keep a commercial starter working for you for quite a while. I've kept starters working well for well over a year. That was back when I baked more bread than I do today. Today I wouldn't be able to do that because I wouldn't maintain the starter properly. Now I buy sourdough loafs at the bakery.
 
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