So I made a 6-quart batch

[jessicacarr]

of vegatable beef soup, and iv never made that much at one time before. i had to put it together on my lunch and stick it in the fridge before going back to work. so i put 6 or 7 pieces of ice in it, which is all i had. now, after 4 hours of being in the fridge, it is only lukewarm.
1. is it safe to eat?
2. how to properly cook a huge batch like that?
thanks

 

[Andy M.]

1. Maybe OK. If the soup was hot off the stove except for the few bits of ice, its temp was probably over the upper safe limit of 140 F. So for some part of the six or so hours you were gone, it was not in the temperature danger zone (40F - 140F)

Next Time:

2. Put the soup pot into a sink filled with cold water (and ice). or Freeze half liter water bottles filled with tap water and stir them around in the soup to bring down the temp. or Redistribute the soup into several low wide containers and refrigerate. More surface area makes for faster cooling.

 

[CharlieD]

Those are good sugestions. As far as I see it your soup is perfectly fine. I don't think I ever make less than 8 quarts of soup and I do not even add ice. It goes straight into the freedge and it is always good.

 

[jessicacarr]

thankx yall!!!

 

[gage]

if you have a larger pot that you can sit your soup pot into that will leave the soup pot at a higher level than the large pot you can run cold tap water into the large pot . then while you leave the cold water running you can stir the soup and transfer the heat to the cold water abd cool down the soup ind a very few minutes.
Your soup was sterile and is probably great to eat. if it smells good it is good.

 

[Chef Dave]

of vegatable beef soup, and iv never made that much at one time before. i had to put it together on my lunch and stick it in the fridge before going back to work. so i put 6 or 7 pieces of ice in it, which is all i had. now, after 4 hours of being in the fridge, it is only lukewarm.
1. is it safe to eat?

Answer: No, it is not safe to eat. Highly perishable foods should not be in the temperature danger zone for more than two hours.

2. how to properly cook a huge batch like that?
thanks

The best way to cool a large pot down quickly is to transfer the contents to shallow pans that are not more than 6 inches deep. Place the pans in a refrigerator UNCOVERED since covering them would trap heat. Once the pans are cool, they may be transferred to a larger container and may be covered and refrigerated.

 

[mozart]

I'm sure it is either eaten or gone by now, but FWIW, I tend to agree with Andy. "Safe" in the commercial food handling industry is fairly explicit; any practice that doesn't meet the rules or guidelines is, by definition, "unsafe." These rules and guidelines take into account that many people can come in contact with the food before and after cooking and that equipment is used and needs to be properly cleaned more often than in a home setting.

Safe, in a home setting, is more subjective in my view. Generally, there is one or two individuals who do the cooking and maintain the equipment.

When boiling soup comes off the stove, it is free to pathogenic bacteria. Even if the preparer happens to be a carrier of some pathogenic organism, and it falls off their hands or face into the soup, it too will immediately be killed, since the soup is above 160 degrees. If the soup is covered at this point and placed in the refrigerator, it is very unlikely that there are any pathogenic bacteria to multiply.

The OP asked if the soup would be safe to eat after 4 hours. I think the odds are very high that it would be. However, each household will probably make their own decisions about things like this.

 

[Chef Dave]

Safe, in a home setting, is more subjective in my view... The OP asked if the soup would be safe to eat after 4 hours. I think the odds are very high that it would be.

I respectfully disagree.

Bacteria will grow regardless of whether the food is being prepared in a commercial establishment or in the privacy of one's home. The only difference is that commercial establishments are subject to health inspections that are made in the interest of personal safety. Many states also require managers, chefs, and shift leaders to be ServSafe certified. Home kitchens are not subject to inspection and as such, can be a greater hazard to the public health albeit on a more limited scale given the number of people being served.

According to the U.S. Public Health Service's Center for Disease Control, 76 million people in the United States get sick each year from improperly prepared food, 325,000 are hospitalized, and 5,000 die.

 

[mozart]

I respectfully disagree.

Bacteria will grow regardless of whether the food is being prepared in a commercial establishment or in the privacy of one's home. The only difference is that commercial establishments are subject to health inspections that are made in the interest of personal safety. Many states also require managers, chefs, and shift leaders to be ServSafe certified. Home kitchens are not subject to inspection and as such, can be a greater hazard to the public health albeit on a more limited scale given the number of people being served.

According to the U.S. Public Health Service's Center for Disease Control, 76 million people in the United States get sick each year from improperly prepared food, 325,000 are hospitalized, and 5,000 die.

Hi Dave,

I too must disagree. Pathogenic Bacteria will only grow if it is present. In the scenario I presented, bacteria would not likely be present. In addition, Pathogenic bacteria are less likely to be present in a home setting due to the limited number of folks who have an opportunity to contaminate the food.

As for cooling times, According to the FDA code "Large portions of meat, broth, gravies and other common Cl. perfringens associated foods must meet specific guidelines noted in the 2001 FDA Food Code. These guidelines specify that potentially hazardous food shall be cooled within 2 hours from 140F to 70F and within 6 hours from the initial 140F to 41F or less. Large containers of food may take an extended period of time to cool to 41°F and therefore should be separated into smaller portions, such as pans with a food height of no more than four inches."

As for leaving the pans uncovered, only if they are on the top shelf. Open pans on lower shelves can have the food easily contaminated by sliding other pans above them and scraping off foreign particles from the shelf. The Health D will write a violation in most jurisdictions for uncovered food.

 

[jet]

I'm just impressed that she could make 6 quarts of soup on her lunch hour!

Personally, I follow the rule-of-thumb that nothing more than 4 inches thick should be refrigerated without being cooled first.

 

[Chef Dave]

Pathogenic Bacteria will only grow if it is present.

That would be great if this was true but all food have naturally occurring bacteria. Some bacteria are used to ferment foods like Creme Fraiche, sour cream, and yogurt. Others are less palatable and may be found at the time of purchase in raw eggs, meat, poultry, seafood, raw vegetables, greens, and uncooked rice.

Pathogens may develop as a result of poor time and temperature controls.

I will admit that under the conditions described, the probability that the food contained harmful pathogenic bacteria was minimal ... but when in doubt about food safety, it is always better to err on the side of caution.

 

[mozart]

That would be great if this was true but all food have naturally occurring bacteria. Some bacteria are used to ferment foods like Creme Fraiche, sour cream, and yogurt. Others are less palatable and may be found at the time of purchase in raw eggs, meat, poultry, seafood, raw vegetables, greens, and uncooked rice.

Pathogens may develop as a result of poor time and temperature controls.

I will admit that under the conditions described, the probability that the food contained harmful pathogenic bacteria was minimal ... but when in doubt about food safety, it is always better to err on the side of caution.

Hi again Dave,

We are not talking about beneficial bacteria or spoilage bacteria or other organisms; we are talking about pathogenic bacteria and the finite number of food borne illnesses that they cause.

Pathogenic bacteria are killed at 160 F. Unless more are introduced by the home cook AFTER the soup cools below 140F, they can not be present.

There is the possibility of Clostridium Perfringens food intoxication in improperly stored prepared foods. This is caused by spores that survive the food prep process and then vegetate in anaerobic conditions. The ingested bacteria then form a toxin in the intestine which causes the disease. However, in order to happen, large amounts of bacteria must exist in the food product from the spoors and this takes time. This is why the FDA allows up to 6 hours to cool food with the potential for this disease to 41F.

Bacillus cereus is another possibility, although it is an aerobic spore former, and is found more in rice.

Both these bacteria, if present, would be killed upon reheating of the soup.

The real take away, in my opinion, is to reheat prepared foods when possible to at least 160 F.