What's Your Favorite Mother Sauce, Besides Bechamel?

[Whiskadoodle]

Here's yet another look at the Mother Sauces-- now with 7 categories.
( found at wiki. answers dot com) not sure the veracity of this website.
To me, this list looks as logical as five. We could go with 8, if sweet fruit sauces were included or 9 if… but I will slap my own typing fingers and focus with 5 – 6 - or 7. Mother Sauces.

Five hot:


1. hollandaise
2. bechamel
3. espagnole
4. veloute
5. tomato

Two cold:
1. mayonnaise
2. vinaigrette

I think this is a good topic and with the exception of Espagnole sauce, I can at least identify the words, and may know what direction I should take if I make one of them and even in which dish I might want to use or serve it with. When starting to look at the small sauces/ daughter sauces/ derivatives/ secondary sauces then it gets more complex and confusing. It seems they don't even know what to call themselves.

Regrettably at the moment I am unable to open GG’s study guide. ( personal computer issue, will use a different machine and read it). I guess learning about secondary sauces is a challenge and isn’t supposed to be easy. I have seen some of these in cookbooks or on restaurant menus. Usually skip over them as I don’t know anything about them, and find a different recipe or dish that is more familiar. Well, this is an opportunity to look at them with a different approach, and maybe even make one!
A good way to search is “sauces made from béchamel, veloute, etc

What is demi-glace, beurre-blanc, bordelaise or béarnaise, maitre d’ butter. Is the latter a liquid, such as a dipping sauce for lobster or a solid herbal butter pat to melt itself into a hot vegetable or steak topping. This is somewhat rhetorical, I can read and study terms and recipes. You may know some of the above, I suspect there are others you are unfamiliar as well.

I know little or next to nothing using wine, alcohol or beer in cooking. Over the years, this has fallen off my cooking vocab. I do make pretty good use of substitutes. Sometimes, there is no sub and including an alcohol can certainly enhance the overall flavor. I would like to pay more attention to this in making some sauces.

I go to a restaurant and order a steak. At the bottom of the menu it says, (usually for additional charge) you may add – béarnaise sauce, a horseradish sauce, wine or brandy peppercorn sauce, and maybe more choices.

Now, I think at this point I understand béarnaise may contain tarragon/ chervil. Is this a flavor I want with steak? . Having seen this on several menus, apparently I guess it’s worth trying. The horseradish is pretty straight-forward, it’s either plain, but it says Sauce, so it’s mixed with cream or sour cream and so on. Or they may ask if you would like a Steak Sauce. I know Heinz 57, A-1 and have seen several others. It’s best to Ask the server if they offer a House made steak sauce, what is it compared to --. Usually, I want my steak Plain, so I can taste the flavor of the meat. Today, for purposes of this discussion, Steak must be served with a Sauce. Mmm Steak.

So where do you think we go with discussion of the small sauces? Kadesma asked earlier “where to start”. Seriously, I think the answer is – with a spoon.
I am going to the store early next week. Enough time to find a new sauce, research and figure out all the details and make it. I guess that's how I am going to go about this.

 

[Snip 13]

I've tried making mother sauce but my mom refuses to get in the pot!

 

[buckytom]

lol!!!

hey, this isn't open mic night!

 

[Snip 13]

lol!!!

hey, this isn't open mic night!

Sorry, forgot to drink my meds

 

[Chief Longwind Of The North]

After that last mother sauce joke, my mind started going places it shouldn't. Dark humor comes to mind so quickly when you create nasty villains for your novels. I am so tempted. But I will resist. BT could get away with such comments, for he is our favorite rascal. But me, I'm supposed to be a nice guy. Whoa is the plight of the nice guy. Hey, wait! I throw virtual snowballs. I'm rascally too. Yay!

I typed it, then erased it. What goes on in the deep recesses of my brain shall forever be a mystery (Do not succumb to the power of the dark side, young Chief (young compared to a stone)).

OK, seriously now, another mother sauce derivative: Soubise Sauce
Ingredients:

1 lb onions, chopped
4 Tbsp butter
1 quart Béchamel sauce (see recipe below)

In a heavy sauce pot, melt the butter over medium heat. Add the chopped onion and reduce heat to low. Sweat the onion until tender, but not browned. When the onions are soft, place into a food processor with the butter, and pulse until smooth. Put the onion back into the pot, and whisk the Bechemel sauce into it to combine. If you have a stick blender, this would be a good time to use it.


As you probably ascertained, Soubise sauce is a Bechemel based onion sauce. It's great over all kinds of veggies, over oven-roasted potatoes, or ladled over a good hash. With a few additional ingredients, it can be used to make gravies and other sauces as well. It's uses are limited only by your imagination.



Can you imagine Soubise sauce mixed with chunks of saute'd beef, or cooked turkey breast, or even with a cup or two of frozen peas added to make a creamed pea side dish? I'm thinking that this simple sauce could make a great potato chowder, especially with some bacon added.


Well, you get the idea.


Basic Bechemel Sauce
Ingredients:
4 tbs. unsalted butter
4 tbs, AP flour
1/2 tsp, salt
2 dashes nutmeg
4 cups milk


Melt the butter over medium heat until liquid. Add the flour, salt, and nutmeg, all at once. Whisk together until a bubbling paste is made. Continue whisking the roux until it just starts to turn golden (Blonde). whisk in the milk until a creamy, smooth sauce is formed. Remove from the heat and pour into a suitable storage container. Place plastic wrap over the sauce so that touches the sauce surface. This prevents a "skin" from forming on top of the sauce. Refrigerate until ready to use.


Most recipes say that you need to add the milk before the roux starts to change color. Personally, I like the flavor of the blonde roux better than the white roux. But that's just me. In any case, your Bechemel is ready for whatever you need it for.



Seeeeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North

 

[Snip 13]

After that last mother sauce joke, my mind started going places it shouldn't. Dark humor comes to mind so quickly when you create nasty villains for your novels. I am so tempted. But I will resist. BT could get away with such comments, for he is our favorite rascal. But me, I'm supposed to be a nice guy. Whoa is the plight of the nice guy. Hey, wait! I throw virtual snowballs. I'm rascally too. Yay!

I typed it, then erased it. What goes on in the deep recesses of my brain shall forever be a mystery (Do not succumb to the power of the dark side, young Chief (young compared to a stone)).

Seeeeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North

I'll admit my mind wonders into the "dark side" sometimes. Think I've been watching too much Sci Fi

To get back to the actual topic...
As much as I like tomato based sauces and bechamel, I prefer sour tastes so I would go with a vinegar or lemon based sauce.

 

[Chief Longwind Of The North]

I'll admit my mind wonders into the "dark side" sometimes. Think I've been watching too much Sci Fi

To get back to the actual topic...
As much as I like tomato based sauces and bechamel, I prefer sour tastes so I would go with a vinegar or lemon based sauce.

Examples and recipes are required. Give us a sauce, based on one of the Mothers. I'm sure that there must be a small sauce that's sour. If yu can't find one, or don't already have an example in your repertoire, then open another thread on the kinds of sauces you like. We'll letcha.

Seeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North

 

[Snip 13]

Yes Sir!

Since the sour sauces I make are not mother sauce based here are 3 of my most used sauces.....

Tomato based :

2 lbs of Isreali tomatoes or a mix of heirloom tomatoes. (seeded and skinned)
1 large onion finely chopped
splash of w/sauce
1 tbsp of paprika
3 cloves of roasted garlic or garlic puree.
2 red chillies finely chopped
1 tsp of dried oregano and 1 tsp of dried thyme
Salt and freshly ground black pepper to taste



Sautee the onion till translucent in a bit of olive oil, add garlic and chillies. Cook for about 5 mins on a low heat. Add tomatoes and all the other spices and w/sauce. Simmer gently for 30-40 mins. Season with salt and pepper.

Bechamel based: (cheese sauce)

2 tbsps of all purpose flour
2 tbsps of real butter
4 cups of whole milk
1 heaped teaspoon of hot english mustard
1 cup of finely grated sharp cheddar
1 tsp of onion powder
salt and white pepper to taste

Melt butter over a low heat, whisk in the flour, cook out for a few minutes, slowly whisk in the milk, add mustard and onion powder. Slowly whisk in the cheese. Season with salt and white pepper.

Veloute Based:

2 tbsps of all purpose flour
4 cups of chicken stock
1 large onion grated
1 carrot grated
2 sticks of celery finely chopped
Salt and pepper
Handful of chopped parsley
juice of one lemon

Over a gentle heat sautee the onion, carrot and celery in a bit of olive oil. Whisk in the flour, cook out for a few minutes. Slowly whisk in the stock. Pour in the lemon juice and add the parsley. Taste and add as much salt and pepper as desired.

 

[puffin3]

You can buy this treasure used from Amazon for about fifteen bucks. I make sauces from the recipes at least once a week. IMO there simply is not a better classic French sauce 'go-to' book than Escoffier.

 

[Cerise]

Here in the great land of DC, we occasionally dabble in sauces. But it seems we ignore the mother sauces, except Bechemel and Tomato. I never see a recipe for a Veloute, or Veloute derivitive, or an Espagnole, or Mayonnaise. Once in a while, we see an oil and vinegar based dressing.

So, do we often make others in the categorie, or even the small sauces? I occasionally will make a fume', which I believe is a type of Veloute'. I don't think I've made Espagnole or Demi-Glace. I occasionally also make my own mayo.

Which, if any, of these great Mother Sauces do you make, and what is your favorite, other than Bechemel?

My favorite is Veloute'.

I start with a blonde roux, made with salted butter and AP flour. To that, I add chicken, veal, pork, or fish broth to make a silky smooth sauce. This sauce is then used either as a gravy, or base for chowders, or bisques.

I don't know many small sauces for Veloute, but would love to learn some of them.

Maybe we need a topic just for Mother Sauces and the small sauces made from them. I suspect that most of us are lacking in knowledge of this flavor-rich group, and so don't have the option of dressing our foods to enhance them properly.

Also, there must be faster ways to make some of those that traditionally took many hours to prepare. Like for Espagnole, could the same flavor be achieved by cooking the bones for an hour or two in a pressure cooker, rather than ten to twelve hours in a kettle?

Seeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North

Chief, why not Bechamel?

To be honest, personally I have not seen most of the Mother sauces on a menu or served in decades, i.e. asparagus in hollondaise, mornay etc. It might be a good starting point for wannabe chefs, but not what I cook with on an everyday basis, or keep in the freezer.

The more recent "sauces" in my experience are pesto (old hat now, but still used), chimichurri, mojito, foam and compound butters.

 

[Whiskadoodle]

You can buy this treasure used from Amazon for about fifteen bucks. I make sauces from the recipes at least once a week. IMO there simply is not a better classic French sauce 'go-to' book than Escoffier.

You are probably right about that Puffin, Escoffier t is a great guide book and teaching resource.

Do you use the Escoffier as a resource, make recipes as stated, or as a guide and use ingredients on hand. I tend to fly more by the seat of my pants. This is one reason I appreciate this discussion. It is an attempt to learn more about classic sauces and to make them as intended. And to look for fun and reasonable ways to share what is learned within the group. Hopefully, it will make me sit up straight and fly right. Hope and wonder.

 

[Whiskadoodle]

Mayo-- Aioli and Remoulade Sauces

Aioli This is a true child of mayonnaise. This is one basic recipe that is easy to make and I frequently use. Use as a sandwich spread, as a great dip for raw or grilled vegetables, as a dip for French fries/ chips or as a sauce for grilled fish and more. Today I made an aioli to be smeared on a toasted bun when I make pan fried burgers for National burger day. No 'taters in the house or it would be oven fries to go with.

To make aioli—
1 cup mayo, homemade or jarred
3 cloves garlic or more, to taste
2 tsp fresh lemon juice, a little zest
Salt / pepper.
Mince garlic very very finely or smash in a mortar/pestle. It's making this paste from the fresh garlic that gives aioli its intense flavor. Add the garlic to a small bowl, and whisk together with the rest of the ingredients. Cover, chill and allow flavors to blend.

Additions I have used, chopped capers, snipped fresh tarragon, green onion tops, Tabasco, a little Dijon mustard.

Additions worth trying, horseradish, minced chili pepper, other herbs, I think at some point this is no longer an aioli and tilts toward making a Remoulade sauce. I personally don’t consider this cheating until it surpasses the garlic flavor or multiple variants are included .

Remoulade. Escoffier writes:
“ To one pint of Mayonnaise add one large tablespoon of prepared mustard, another of gherkins, and yet another of chopped and pressed out capers, one tablespoon of fine herbs, parsley, chervil, and tarragon, all chopped and mixed, and a teaspoon of anchovy essence or a bit of anchovy paste. “
Wherever I read this, it has to be paraphrased, as it had several mis-spellings. The idea is central to Remoulade sauce. It makes no mention of garlic. Oops, I include when I have made this. I use Dijon, it says gherkins, cornichons, -- dill pickles are what I have and are acceptable. Not sweet pickles. Capers, yes, tarragon, I have grown chervil, I think it loses its flavor once dried, so no. I rarely have anchovies on hand, and I think sardines are a bit heavy to use. I don’t recall tasting this flavor either. It’s listed as an optional ingredient in the Joy of Cooking,

At home I make Perfect Fried Rubber Bands. If I go to a restaurant, on the Appetizer menu, they call them by their more familiar name—Calamari. I like these and it’s easy to share an order. One of the common dipping sauces offered is each place’s Remoulade. Up to today, this is confusing, and is often a surprise what they serve. The least best is no better than a commercial jarred tartar sauce. -- try to avoid. The real surprise is why is it sometimes white, yellow or red. After scoping out the net, it is easy to see, some places may not include or use dry mustard, or maybe they make a Danish Remoulade, yet another variation, is yellow and may include curry, and coriander. I will have to pay more attn the next time I am served this. Some places make a Creole (red) sauce. This has become as common in some settings as the classic French Remoulade. Both are valid sauces.

To make a classic Remoulade:
1 cup mayo
1 Tbsp finely chopped pickle
1 Tbsp rinsed chopped capers
1 Tbsp French mustard
1 Tbsp each tarragon and parsley
( chervil)
( 1 tsp or more smashed anchovy)
( 1 clove garlic, smashed) harrumph. I don’ t see this in any recipe, I put it in there.
Salt/ pepper to taste
Mix and chill.

To make a Creole Remoulade – this one is from Food dot com and looks representative of many. I have not made this type. It is good with Fried fish, crab cakes, calamari and as a vegetable or French fry dip
1 cup mayonnaise
2 tablespoons whole grain mustard
2 tablespoons ketchup
1 tablespoon fresh lemon juice
1 tablespoon Worcestershire sauce
1/2 cup finely chopped scallion
1/4 cup finely chopped fresh flat leaf parsley
1 stalk finely chopped celery
2 cloves garlic, minced
1 teaspoon paprika
2 teaspoons hot sauce
1/4 teaspoon fresh ground black pepper
Again, mix and chill. With a jar of Creole mustard and some Louisiana hot sauce on hand, one could combine the best of both kinds of Remoulade.
-

 

[buckytom]

did escoffier cover pesto and chimichurri?

and i thought a mojito was a drink, not a sauce.

 

[Chief Longwind Of The North]

From what I read, Hollandaise is the mother sauce. Mayonnaise is a derivative, as is aioli. And from the same source, the difference between mayonaise, and aioli is that the former is made with a neutral oil, while aioli is made with EVOO, and fresh garlic. Both have multiple recipes, and can be seasoned and flavored according to personal taste.

Often, a home-made flavored mayo is called an aioli, as it is a misconception that aioli is a flavored mayonnaise.

The following is one of my sources - Difference Between Aioli and Mayonnaise | Difference Between | Aioli vs Mayonnaise

Escoffier Online Recipe – Aiolo | Escoffier Online

Seeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North

 

[GotGarlic]

did escoffier cover pesto and chimichurri?

and i thought a mojito was a drink, not a sauce.

Escoffier only wrote about traditional French cuisine. In culinary school, they referred to pesto, salsa, chutney, etc., as independent sauces. I think Cerise may have confused mojito and mojo, which is a Caribbean sauce made with garlic, olive oil and citrus.

I am really enjoying this thread Here's a remoulade I like to use with fish:

Ginger Remoulade

1 cup mayonnaise
2 tbsp. ketchup
2 tbsp. each minced celery, onion, fresh ginger and fresh parsley

Stir mayonnaise and ketchup to blend thoroughly. Stir in remaining ingredients. Cover and refrigerate at least one hour to allow flavors to meld. Serve with grilled or sauteed fish, or as a sandwich spread or salad dressing. Also great mixed with flaked cold fish or diced chicken served on crackers.

 

[PrincessFiona60]

So, a Thousand Island Dressing is in the Remoulade family of sauces...

Funny how many of these sauces I learned from BH&G, they are just called something else and used in different ways.

 

[Chief Longwind Of The North]

So, a Thousand Island Dressing is in the Remoulade family of sauces...

Funny how many of these sauces I learned from BH&G, they are just called something else and used in different ways.

Both french and russian dressings are examples of an emulsion sauce, and so would be considered, I think, small sauces from Hollandaise. I could be wrong on this though. They could be a part of the oil and vinegar, or vinaigarette sauces.

Seeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North

 

[Whiskadoodle]

A question about How To Thicken A Sauce

If you please. I think this is an essential part of making many types of sauces.

These are the ones I know -- Roux, Slurry and today, thanks to a Julia Child Beef Bourguignon video on the WFD 2/8/13 thread she demonstrates how to make and use Beurre manié. Other ways to thicken a sauce that I can think of are sauce reductions by simmering away some of the liquid, incorporating air by whipping cream or eggs, and possibly adding a portion of cream at the end of a sauce, or a dollop of butter and swirl it around.

My question is , why does one apply one technique vs another in making various sauces? Does one method vs another create a difference in taste?

In the Beef Bourguignon video why is a beurre manie’ vs a slurry used? My guess is to thicken without adding more liquid and it gets a smoother appearance. When I make stew, I start out shake the meat cubes in a seasoned flour, brown it, then add the liquid, cook/ bake/ simmer for a long time. It’s supposed to be self thickening ? this way. My stew is more often like Soup when done. Probably I add more liquid than a recipe recommends? Or ? I always make a Slurry at this point and stir stir stir it in until the sauce thickens, bring it back to a boil and reduce temp to finish.
In the case of making gravy, why use a roux vs a slurry. I have made a roux at the start of gravy making, with both fat in the pan and some juices/ browned bits and then added more liquid to make the gravy sauce. Eg biscuits and gravy. Mostly I use a slurry to add if there is quite a bit of liquid already in the pan, such as with a pot roast. Why not brown the meat, remove it to a platter as Julia did, make a roux in the pan, ( she poured off the oil after the meat is browned) before adding wine to de-glaze the pan VS leave the cooking oil in the pan, make a roux, then add the wine and stock and essentially already have a gravy for the meat to slow cook in the oven. ( I make baked swiss steak this way and both the meat and gravy get richer tasting). Seems easier. So why is this not the best method or even done except when making some casseroles. Beef Bourguignon is a casserole! and a stew !!

Here is the Julia Child Beef Bourguignon video again. She makes Beurre manié at the 22 minute mark. I think I am confused. Thanks for your thoughts/ comments.

Julia Child - boeuf bourguignon - YouTube

 

[GotGarlic]

A question about How To Thicken A Sauce

If you please. I think this is an essential part of making many types of sauces.

These are the ones I know -- Roux, Slurry and today, thanks to a Julia Child Beef Bourguignon video on the WFD 2/8/13 thread she demonstrates how to make and use Beurre manié. Other ways to thicken a sauce that I can think of are sauce reductions by simmering away some of the liquid, incorporating air by whipping cream or eggs, and possibly adding a portion of cream at the end of a sauce, or a dollop of butter and swirl it around.

My question is , why does one apply one technique vs another in making various sauces? Does one method vs another create a difference in taste?

In the Beef Bourguignon video why is a beurre manie’ vs a slurry used? My guess is to thicken without adding more liquid and it gets a smoother appearance. When I make stew, I start out shake the meat cubes in a seasoned flour, brown it, then add the liquid, cook/ bake/ simmer for a long time. It’s supposed to be self thickening ? this way. My stew is more often like Soup when done. Probably I add more liquid than a recipe recommends? Or ? I always make a Slurry at this point and stir stir stir it in until the sauce thickens, bring it back to a boil and reduce temp to finish.

Different methods can create different flavors, as well as different textures. Using beurre manie adds butter to the sauce, while a slurry adds water.

I've seen stew recipes where the vegetables are poured into a blender and pureed to make a sauce, then the dish is served with new vegetables. Often with a long-cooking stew, the veggies are so soft, they're not very appetizing.

In the case of making gravy, why use a roux vs a slurry. I have made a roux at the start of gravy making, with both fat in the pan and some juices/ browned bits and then added more liquid to make the gravy sauce. Eg biscuits and gravy. Mostly I use a slurry to add if there is quite a bit of liquid already in the pan, such as with a pot roast. Why not brown the meat, remove it to a platter as Julia did, make a roux in the pan, ( she poured off the oil after the meat is browned) before adding wine to de-glaze the pan VS leave the cooking oil in the pan, make a roux, then add the wine and stock and essentially already have a gravy for the meat to slow cook in the oven. ( I make baked swiss steak this way and both the meat and gravy get richer tasting). Seems easier. So why is this not the best method or even done except when making some casseroles. Beef Bourguignon is a casserole! and a stew !!

I think some of the liquid may evaporate during the long cooking time, unless the lid is airtight, so the sauce would be thicker than desired. Also, as the roast cooks, more browning on the bottom of the pan happens, so if you make the sauce after cooking, that can be incorporated into the sauce.

It seems to me that cooking a roast in a sauce vs. a combination of liquids would create a different end result; not sure which would be preferable since I've never tried it

 

[taxlady]

I tried the beurre manié for the first time yesterday. I liked the result. I will be using it again for stew type food. It is very hard to describe the difference between that sauce and the one made with a roux or by flouring the meat at the beginning.

Now, I'm not saying that roux or long cooked flour makes a "gloopy" sauce/gravy, but the one with the beurre manié was less "gloopy". It made more of a sauce than a gravy. It was still thick enough. You'll have to try it to find out what I'm talking about.

I agree with GG that if the thickener is added at the beginning, it might be the wrong amount and it probably does change the flavour.

Okay, maybe that's part of the difference. The flavours were more "clear", less muddy.