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Old 07-26-2007, 04:38 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Chipotle Tom
But this whole post is about the demographics of obesity! How can you say people who are fat just lack willpower and make bad choices on purpose when the statistics are so lop sided towards particular groups?
I never said that demographics and environment DOESN'T play a part; I acknowledged that it does. But beyond that it's still up to the individual. If an individual wants to lose weight, they can do it. However, to blame it on their environment is still just an excuse.
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Old 07-26-2007, 04:38 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by ironchef
Yes, demographics may make a person more exposed to a certain thing, but it doesn't make them metanlly incapable of making their own decisions.
I don't believe I ever said it made them incapable of making their own decisions. What I was getting at is that it affects what decisions are available to them.

[edited to add] If environment made people incapable of making their own decisions, the stats would be 100% for all people in the same environment (which obviously isn't the case) [\edit]
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Old 07-26-2007, 04:43 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chipotle Tom
At least someone can avoid buying crack

It takes about 20 minutes for your brain to catch up with your stomach. By the time you feel the "I'm full" sensation, you've been full for a while. If obese people wait until they feel full, they won't lose weight because their body will want to maintain its current weight.
And most people can avoid over-eating.

You're right about the brain and stomach relationship. That is the physiology of it, but it only takes 1 or 2 times of pigging out to know your limit. Eat two hamburgers and you’re miserable, so next time you know it was too much.

But let’s be honest, obesity doesn’t happen overnight. It’s not an instant, one shot deal, where one meal makes or breaks you. On the contrary, it is a prolonged and sustained pattern of overeating. Also, you (a person in general) knows when you’re over-weight, and you also know what caused it (unless you have a medical disorder). And when you know these things, you also know there is something you can do about it.
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Old 07-26-2007, 04:46 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Chipotle Tom
I don't believe I ever said it made them incapable of making their own decisions. What I was getting at is that it affects what decisions are available to them.
And I already said that I agreed with you regarding this. Why are you going around in a circle?

Quote:
[edited to add] If environment made people incapable of making their own decisions, the stats would be 100% for all people in the same environment (which obviously isn't the case) [\edit]
No one said that it did, what's your point?
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Old 07-26-2007, 04:49 PM   #25
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That is the physiology of it, but it only takes 1 or 2 times of pigging out to know your limit. Eat two hamburgers and you’re miserable, so next time you know it was too much.
But once your stomach is stretched from those first few times, it holds a lot more and may not give you that over-stuffed sensation until the third hamburger. At that point, two hamburgers might feel just fine.

I'm not trying to say that there isn't any sort of individual responsibility when it comes to over-eating. However, it's much easier to write it off to individual responsibility and not explore any of the factors which might increase somebody's risk for that behavior.

If we understand a problem's components, we can do a lot more to fix it. From what I can tell, just saying "eat less" to the people with the problem hasn't been working.
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Old 07-26-2007, 04:50 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Chipotle Tom
It's also convenient to say that a person's environment shouldn't matter when it comes to losing weight, but when those with little education are surrounded by bad choices, how can they really be expected to make any good ones, much less know which choices are good or bad?

I agree that those who have enough education and money to make responsible choices are completely responsible for whatever predicament they're in health-wise. However, people who don't have much time, money, or education are in a much more difficult spot. Trying to ignore the environment that has facilitated their poor health is like saying poor people are only poor because they want to be.

Your logic would suggest only poor uneducated people are fat. Not true. I'm betting even poor uneducated people know you get fat from overeating.
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Old 07-26-2007, 04:55 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by ironchef
And I already said that I agreed with you regarding this. Why are you going around in a circle?


I typed my reply before I read your edited post.

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No one said that it did, what's your point?
My point is that you can say it comes down to individual responsibility all you want, but the statistics suggest that people in those demographic groups are required to have more willpower and desire to seek out healthy choices because they have fewer available to them.
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Old 07-26-2007, 04:56 PM   #28
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...What I was getting at is that it affects what decisions are available to them...
I don't believe that. How is a decision to not overeat NOT available to someone based on their income or residence?
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Old 07-26-2007, 04:56 PM   #29
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Your logic would suggest only poor uneducated people are fat. Not true. I'm betting even poor uneducated people know you get fat from overeating.
Not at all. My logic suggests that poor uneducated people are more likely to be fat.
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Old 07-26-2007, 04:58 PM   #30
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Your logic would suggest only poor uneducated people are fat. Not true. I'm betting even poor uneducated people know you get fat from overeating.
It would also suggest that poor and uneducated people have no responsibility or choice to the matter.
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