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Old 11-26-2011, 05:33 PM   #11
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CWS, I read something recently about a workaround. Our neighboring state, Wisconsin, does not allow direct sales of milk to the public, either, but farmers can produce milk for their own consumption. So to get around that, some farmers have started offering what they call "cowshares", whereas a group of people share ownership of the cows and therefore are allowed to drink milk and cheese produced from those cows. The end result is raw milk that costs less than $3 a gallon.

It's a pretty clever solution.
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Old 11-26-2011, 05:41 PM   #12
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I know someone who has a milk quota--I'm going to ask him if I can buy one of his cows (or a share) and collect a gallon of milk every x number of days.
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Old 11-26-2011, 05:42 PM   #13
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I don't want my OWN cow--I don't know that I could process or store that much milk every day!
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Old 11-26-2011, 06:04 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Timothy View Post
Who would buy a dozen eggs at $25 per/dozen?

I love animals. I really do. That video made my stomach turn, but, and it's a HUGE "BUT", how do you raise enough chickens to produce 205 million eggs per/day, and do so in a manner that will allow the eggs to be profitable at less than $2 per/dozen?

Isn't murdering an animal to eat it and use its carcass cruel in its very definition? How do you KILL a living, breathing animal without it being something the animal is terrified by and hurt by?
There is a HUGE difference between less than $2/dozen and $25. I can get eggs that were created in a humane setting for about $4/dozen around here, but I cannot get them from a supermarket. I really think that even huge operations could have clean pens and more sanitary conditions though it would not be the same as those raised on a farm. I don't think space enough to spread wings and move about, and cleanliness are too much to ask.

Having seen my grandparents raise their own food, I can say that the animals they killed for food were not in pain nor were they terrified when they were slaughtered. It was quick and clean. There is zero reason for torture.

Cleanliness goes beyond livestock and animal products. Let's not forget the recent contamination of spinach and melons.

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I buy my eggs from a co-worker who has laying hens. A dozen every two weeks. If I'm baking or Shrek wants hard boiled, I go to the store and pick eggs that are produced closest to Missoula. Usually Hutterite eggs.
That's awesome, PF. I would love to find a co-worker who had eggs. Since I don't, I think I will see if I can find a local farm that sells items or maybe a community sharing situation. I do have a co-worker that raises a few cattle each year and has offered to raise one for me. I need a proper freezer.

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I feel much the same as you. But what I find even more appalling is that some of these bad eggs (pun intended) get cited time and time again for ethical violations, and yet somehow remain in business. Furthermore, you have states like New York that are trying to pass laws to prohibit cameras in farm operations. I see nothing to be gained by such legislation except to allow bad farming practices to be covered up. It's disgusting.

I'm a meat eater and always will be. I have no problem with raising animals for food, provided those animals live a natural and healthy life up until the point they are slaughtered (versus living in their own filth and being force fed questionable food products and antibiotics). I grew up around farms, and I've seen animals put down without suffering.

Our family has given up completely on mass-produced meat and dairy. We've been buying food from nearby farms, as well as a co-operative for the past couple of years. One of the co-op's mandates is that their meat and dairy sources come from local farms that are regularly inspected by co-op representatives. Some of the things they look for is mistreatment of animals and unsanitary conditions. It does cost more. I pay around $4 a dozen for eggs, and meat is not on our table as frequently as it used to be (and certainly in much smaller portions), but it's all good.
I feel exactly as you do! I do wish they would hit those who violate health laws hard where it hurts. Use the fine money to help support more safe food practices.

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I know someone who has a milk quota--I'm going to ask him if I can buy one of his cows (or a share) and collect a gallon of milk every x number of days.
Fresh milk is SO good. I went to a 4H fair where they made ice cream from fresh milk. It was amazing.
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Old 11-26-2011, 06:20 PM   #15
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Kathleen--ask around--you'll probably find someone who knows someone who sells farm-fresh eggs. My chickens are free-range, but when I went to get Harriet and Myrtle, I was dismayed that the hens were kept in a very, very small coop (about 4 ft x 4 ft) and there were 12 of them in there. And, that they did not get to go outside. Harriet and Myrtle were the two that tumbled out of the door when it was opened. They are very happy with their new accommodations (and PF, I did bring Harriet in the house today--she was at the door, so I picked her up, brought her in, gave her a couple of treats, and then brought her back outside...figured she needed something to cluck about tonight in the barn).

The sad reality is that many people cannot afford food. People in that position cannot afford to push back and say "I want food that is locally grown, etc."
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Old 11-26-2011, 06:43 PM   #16
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I pay $2 a dozen and provide empty egg cartons. The eighth beef I bought was from a local farmer, he and his wife slaughter one a year. I also know folks who are happy to share their garden bounty and also have a co-worker who will sell me the top of their produce before they take it to the Farmers Market.
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Old 11-26-2011, 06:56 PM   #17
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I hate to put my oar in this murky water, but if we all only ate vegetables and fruits that were in season and local and sustainable, many of us wouldn't have fresh anything for several months out of the year. Lettuce in North Dakota in the winter? Tomatoes most places any time besides September? We'd all have to can from scratch just to keep nutritionally ahead of the game. In my house that isn't going to happen. Yes, in olden days people did that, but remember, they almost always had a "wife" who stayed home and made sure there was food on the shelf and a clean house, 24/7.

Don't get me wrong, someone (from California) wants to start a meg-dairy near us. I'm opposing it ... especially since we live amongst lovely family run farms that provide us with superb dairy products (and yes, I have visited the sites where I buy some of my dairy products). I don't want to go that way. But, in fact, if I had to depend upon this for my sustenance, I'd have to move back to .. well, some place I don't want to live.
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Old 11-26-2011, 07:28 PM   #18
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It just means that you are doing your best seasonally. Yes, if I want fresh tomatoes in December, I may have to get them from California or South America...but in the off seasons, I am continuing to support the local community and keep my neighbors working in the stores that provide produce in the winter.

I work, I don't have time to do it all at home and have any kind of time to sit and relax. I pay for the goods that allow me the time. I am also an apartment dweller, I will most likely never have a garden, unless I start doing the community gardening...again, I need the time for such.
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Old 11-26-2011, 07:34 PM   #19
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It is worse than deplorable. Unfortunately it's not just chickens which are treated like that. Cattle and pigs are treated no better.

But it's not just the animals who are abused. The entire gigantic food producing process is horrible from start to finish. A fine example are those nasty tasting, but pretty, tomatoes you find in your supermakets all year long which arrive there pretty much there because of what amounts to slave labor in Florida. Find the book Tomatoland and give it a read. It's disturbing and sickening. And that's what happens in the USA, can you even imagine what things are done in other countries?

Sure, it's not always realistic to only eat things that grew in your garden or neighborhood farm or within your state. But there are alternatives. And it might mean not having every food out there available every day of the year. But there are choices and alternatives.

Cheap food comes at a great price and the majority of people don't want to know the truth of how anything ends up on their dinner table. If we'd all just educate ourselves and spend our grocery dollars accordingly, the industry would be forced to make some huge changes.
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Old 11-26-2011, 10:04 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CWS4322 View Post

The sad reality is that many people cannot afford food. People in that position cannot afford to push back and say "I want food that is locally grown, etc."
I realize that not everyone can afford local/sustainable/organic items grown without hormones, etc. However, I do think that everyone deserves food produced by safe practices. Cleaning cages and providing space for animals to move should be a minimal request. Kindness costs nothing at all.

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Originally Posted by PrincessFiona60 View Post
It just means that you are doing your best seasonally. Yes, if I want fresh tomatoes in December, I may have to get them from California or South America...but in the off seasons, I am continuing to support the local community and keep my neighbors working in the stores that provide produce in the winter.

I work, I don't have time to do it all at home and have any kind of time to sit and relax. I pay for the goods that allow me the time. I am also an apartment dweller, I will most likely never have a garden, unless I start doing the community gardening...again, I need the time for such.
I agree, PF and Claire: Sometimes local is not feasible. My real concern is "safe and ethical."

You know, you could probably peddle your bike to the community garden. I'm really glad I joined mine. The peer pressure caused me to weed. And it was exercise.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zereh View Post
It is worse than deplorable. Unfortunately it's not just chickens which are treated like that. Cattle and pigs are treated no better.

But it's not just the animals who are abused. The entire gigantic food producing process is horrible from start to finish. A fine example are those nasty tasting, but pretty, tomatoes you find in your supermakets all year long which arrive there pretty much there because of what amounts to slave labor in Florida. Find the book Tomatoland and give it a read. It's disturbing and sickening. And that's what happens in the USA, can you even imagine what things are done in other countries?

Sure, it's not always realistic to only eat things that grew in your garden or neighborhood farm or within your state. But there are alternatives. And it might mean not having every food out there available every day of the year. But there are choices and alternatives.

Cheap food comes at a great price and the majority of people don't want to know the truth of how anything ends up on their dinner table. If we'd all just educate ourselves and spend our grocery dollars accordingly, the industry would be forced to make some huge changes.
Well-worded. I admit that I knew that mass farms were not giving animals luxury accommodations, but I assumed the practices were at least clean and the animals were minimally cared for with cheap antibiotics, etc. I thought diseased or injured animals would be humanely euthanized. This was an eye-opener for me. I'd rather go very lean a few days a week than support such practices. Obviously, this video seriously affected me on several levels. I definitely will be driving my family a bit more crazy than I have already done by looking more at from where my food is produced.
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