We all know that pedaling my bike is NOT good for my health, I have a squeaky elbow now.
I don't think space enough to spread wings and move about, and cleanliness are too much to ask.
To be realistic, it's more than any chicken producer will ever pay to do. They would literally have to tear down thier entire cage area and rebuild it.
None of them will do that, ever. The down time alone would cost them a fortune. The materials, construction and labor would be cost prohibitive.
Your ideas are great "feel good" ideas Kathleen, but that type of system has to be built from the ground up. No existing producer can afford to do the modifications to existing structures.
Seriously, go to a place that actually has the cages you don't like and see what a mammoth and costly undertaking it would be to alter it to a "perfect" process. That cost would initially have to be borne by the owner of the business. No businessperson in their right mind would shut their entire operation down to do that type of overhaul to make a bunch of chickens feel better about their captivity.
I do love animals, but the business side of me keeps me thinking within the realms of reality.
Mods like what you desire, cost money. Where is that money going to come from realistically?
I'm going to politely disagree, Timothy. Cleanliness does not require a business cage overhaul. Room to move may simply require them to put a few less birds in each cage and they can design better cages as they expand. Failure to comply with basic laws of hygiene and ethical practices should cause a company to shut down. Selling cheap eggs is one thing. Creating conditions for unsafe food and unnecessarily creating harm to animals is another. When ABC was given a tour of the egg company, the look of the production plant looked MUCH more reasonable - of course, it was a different facility but the same company.
I agree. It's pointless to argue about something that won't be changed.
So to move on to the follow-up topic, again, I must politely disagree that something won't be changed as things have already changed. McDonalds and Target (among others) have dropped the egg company's business - which I am sure cost the company significant amounts of money. ABC did a follow-up story with the egg company who gave them a tour of a different (very clean and humane) facility. As a result, the egg company has thankfully vowed to clean up it's practices in their offending facility. On a less significant scale, the general population, including me, has become more aware and will make their spending changes based on their new awareness: I've always believed in the power of one. It starts with one person, but little changes add up.
This is where we make the difference, a dollar at a time. There are more and more people shopping at our Whole Foods type grocery than ever before. All meat and dairy is produced in state at small farms, most within 100 miles of Missoula. It's making it tough to find a good shopping time when the store is slow.
I get a giggle seeing the small locally owned grocer has more cashiers working at a time than the Super Wal-Mart.
So to move on to the follow-up topic, again, I must politely disagree that something won't be changed as things have already changed. McDonalds and Target (among others) have dropped the egg company's business - which I am sure cost the company significant amounts of money. ABC did a follow-up story with the egg company who gave them a tour of a different (very clean and humane) facility. As a result, the egg company has thankfully vowed to clean up it's practices in their offending facility. On a less significant scale, the general population, including me, has become more aware and will make their spending changes based on their new awareness: I've always believed in the power of one. It starts with one person, but little changes add up.
I read in one of my many cookbooks, that until the 1940s, the average "housewife" spent 3 hours a day cooking. I know my grandmother did--she baked all the bread, pies, made almost everything from scratch, had a HUGE veggie garden, kept chickens, etc. She did not work outside of the home (when would she have had time?). I do many of the same things my grandmother did. I have a modern washing machine (not a wringer washer) and I work--but I work from home, so I can have a batch of stock in the oven while I'm working, bread rising (I cheat, I use a bread machine to make the dough), etc. But I could not do this if I had to commute 2 hours/day. Because of time-of-use power rates, I do most of my "big cooking" on weekends now, and reheat stuff through the week. And, I have "gadgets" that help with the house work--an IRoomba vacuum, a Vac-n-Steam mop, and, most recently, the DISHWASHER.In my house that isn't going to happen. Yes, in olden days people did that, but remember, they almost always had a "wife" who stayed home and made sure there was food on the shelf and a clean house, 24/7.
The idea of buying locally is overwhelming to some. Lots of people think that they have to do this 100% or they fail their mission.
It's easy to buy locally to SUPPLEMENT your regular groceries. I find that starting small tends to snowball into me seeking more local, high quality foods. Will I ever be 100% local? Not likely. But I can funnel more of my $ into the local economy, which benefits local farmers and businesses, and benefits me with more wholesome foods.
I read in one of my many cookbooks, that until the 1940s, the average "housewife" spent 3 hours a day cooking. I know my grandmother did--she baked all the bread, pies, made almost everything from scratch, had a HUGE veggie garden, kept chickens, etc. She did not work outside of the home (when would she have had time?). I do many of the same things my grandmother did. I have a modern washing machine (not a wringer washer) and I work--but I work from home, so I can have a batch of stock in the oven while I'm working, bread rising (I cheat, I use a bread machine to make the dough), etc. But I could not do this if I had to commute 2 hours/day. Because of time-of-use power rates, I do most of my "big cooking" on weekends now, and reheat stuff through the week. And, I have "gadgets" that help with the house work--an IRoomba vacuum, a Vac-n-Steam mop, and, most recently, the DISHWASHER.
That describes me exactly, bakechef. I'll never be 100% local, and I supplement my regular groceries if needed. Like you, this has put me on the path to seek more local, high quality foods, which has been fun. Though it is not always feasible, I try to use sustainable products - but every little bit helps.
To quote Claire, ethics is murky. I personally think it can't be applied to any entity other than an individual human being. A corporation, even a collective of people, cannot be ethical (it's unjustified for example to accuse a crowd of the 'bystander effect' as being immoral). I prefer "responsible."
I started this thread, because that video made me realize that I had been solely focusing on "sustainable and local." Food contamination outbreaks are becoming more of a concern to me, and I've always wondered whether these outbreaks have always been there or if they were a more recent concern (and, if so, why now.) I've noticed that many unethical practices tend to go hand-in-hand with unhygienic activities. I think my new learning is that, if I see it as unethical, I'll do without it whereas if it is not local, I'll pick it up at the supermarket. You know?
When I had to bake 32 loaves of pumpkin bread and 2 cheesecakes, I had to get my eggs from the grocery store because there was no time to get to the farmer's market, I didn't fret too much, sometimes you have to do what you have to do.
I get our eggs for $4 a dozen at the farmer's market from a farm that raises meat and sells eggs. It's nice to know where our food is coming from and how it is raised!
I'm really tempted to join their CSA for beef. We just may do it when we level out from all the expense incurred from the many trips to see my dad when he was ill and his funeral.
To quote Claire, ethics is murky. I personally think it can't be applied to any entity other than an individual human being. A corporation, even a collective of people, cannot be ethical (it's unjustified for example to accuse a crowd of the 'bystander effect' as being immoral). I prefer "responsible."
I do think that there is a correlation between "responsible" and "local." If I get sick from an egg provided by a local farm, they will feel the sense of responsibility (if only because locally, what goes around comes around). Does the megaeggfarm feel responsible for the kids they may have directly killed with unsanitary pens in the latest outbreak of salmonella? Probably not, except maybe as a settlement cost liability. And that's mainly because of distance, not because the business is evil, or overly motivated by profit/percentages.
I think it's perfectly ethical to tenderize DC's coders with a flogging before roasting them on a spit. Others may disagree.
That's a lot of pumpkin bread! I really think I'm going to invest in a freezer, and an electrician to put in a socket that would work. (My house is pretty old and only had 30 amps of electric when I moved in. I always need to split circuits when I need something that requires a bit of electric.) Like you, I would love to buy proteins from sources that I would know where and how it is raised.
Also, I'm very sorry to hear that you lost your father.
So to move on to the follow-up topic, again, I must politely disagree that something won't be changed as things have already changed. McDonalds and Target (among others) have dropped the egg company's business - which I am sure cost the company significant amounts of money. ABC did a follow-up story with the egg company who gave them a tour of a different (very clean and humane) facility. As a result, the egg company has thankfully vowed to clean up it's practices in their offending facility. On a less significant scale, the general population, including me, has become more aware and will make their spending changes based on their new awareness: I've always believed in the power of one. It starts with one person, but little changes add up.