Seven S
Senior Cook
Shunka said:
thanks shunka, makes perfect sense since pan-frying entails part of the chicken is always exposed to the air and a lid would trap the steam and moisture in the space between the oil and the lid
Fried Chicken - This time for real...
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thanks shunka, makes perfect sense since pan-frying entails part of the chicken is always exposed to the air and a lid would trap the steam and moisture in the space between the oil and the lid
Harborwitch
Sous Chef
I've used the baking powder in the flour - yes it works. I would always brine or marinate my chicken in buttermilk for frying.
Under normal circumstances I don't do a lot of classic fried chicken, but when I do I prefer lard to crisco. Crisco is hydroginated - unless you get the green can which has no trans fats.
Funny, when we were getting ready to fix carnitas the first time it called for lard - homemade lard! DH went to the mercado and bought all the stuff for the dinner - including the pork fat. We put the pork fat in a huge baking pan and put it in the oven at 200 overnight. You could not believe how good the house smelled!! When all the fat was reduced to little crispy cracklins we strained the fat into container and had our own homemade lard. We got so hooked on the carnitas that I never got to try using it for a pie crust.
Under normal circumstances I don't do a lot of classic fried chicken, but when I do I prefer lard to crisco. Crisco is hydroginated - unless you get the green can which has no trans fats.
Funny, when we were getting ready to fix carnitas the first time it called for lard - homemade lard! DH went to the mercado and bought all the stuff for the dinner - including the pork fat. We put the pork fat in a huge baking pan and put it in the oven at 200 overnight. You could not believe how good the house smelled!! When all the fat was reduced to little crispy cracklins we strained the fat into container and had our own homemade lard. We got so hooked on the carnitas that I never got to try using it for a pie crust.
OP
OP
Nicholas Mosher
Sous Chef
Wow! Lots of comments! I'll have to read through them in a minute.
Cooked off my first batch. I filled a 12" cast iron skillet 1/3 of the way with Crisco, and brought it to 325ºF.
I drained the buttermilk/mustard mixture off the pieces, hit them with salt and pepper, and coated the pieces with simple flour. I placed the breast halves and legs on the outside radius of the pan, and put the thighs in the middle. Had to play with the heat to maintain my 325ºF (I used a simple spatter guard on top like Alton Brown uses which yields a crispy/crunchy crust). After the bottom and edges were a deep golden brown I flipped the pieces once, and cooked that side until it was golden brown. Removed to a rack over some papertowels to drain where I lightly seasoned the crust with some Kosher salt.
First things first, there is no way I would bother making a pan sauce. I have a well-seasoned pan, and the only things left in the pan were melted crisco and a few flecks of flour. I think a separately prepared veloute'/bechamel using chicken stock and milk fortified with some pepper/herbs/garlic and thickened with roux made from rendered chicken fat would be much better and practical.
The drumsticks were fantastic. The thighs were awkward to eat. The breasts were way too thick compared to the crust they had when compared to the meat/crust ratio of the legs/thighs. Alton Brown says the bottom deep-brown spot where the pieces rest on the bottom of the pan is viewed as the best part by many in the south. Personally I would have liked to have a uniform crust that a deep fryer would have given it. I'd also have more fat to dampen the temperature swings, along with an automatic thermostat.
I'm really not sure how much a difference soaking with buttermilk vs not soaking makes. I'm going to marinate 1/2 a chicken today in the same marinade (minus the tarragon which seemed pointless), and then reserve 1/2 the chicken plain. Tomorrow I'm going to try deep frying the pieces in my big 1gal GE basket unit rather than pan-frying.
I think I'll try something else too. Butterflied chicken breasts and thighs that have been boned. Then everything can be eaten with a fork except the drumsticks which are great to chow by hand. Everything will also have relatively equal thickness for that perfect ratio of crust to meat. Then simply serve the chicken/milk gravy over top the pieces.
Gotta' read the posts here and then get some errands done.
Cooked off my first batch. I filled a 12" cast iron skillet 1/3 of the way with Crisco, and brought it to 325ºF.
I drained the buttermilk/mustard mixture off the pieces, hit them with salt and pepper, and coated the pieces with simple flour. I placed the breast halves and legs on the outside radius of the pan, and put the thighs in the middle. Had to play with the heat to maintain my 325ºF (I used a simple spatter guard on top like Alton Brown uses which yields a crispy/crunchy crust). After the bottom and edges were a deep golden brown I flipped the pieces once, and cooked that side until it was golden brown. Removed to a rack over some papertowels to drain where I lightly seasoned the crust with some Kosher salt.
First things first, there is no way I would bother making a pan sauce. I have a well-seasoned pan, and the only things left in the pan were melted crisco and a few flecks of flour. I think a separately prepared veloute'/bechamel using chicken stock and milk fortified with some pepper/herbs/garlic and thickened with roux made from rendered chicken fat would be much better and practical.
The drumsticks were fantastic. The thighs were awkward to eat. The breasts were way too thick compared to the crust they had when compared to the meat/crust ratio of the legs/thighs. Alton Brown says the bottom deep-brown spot where the pieces rest on the bottom of the pan is viewed as the best part by many in the south. Personally I would have liked to have a uniform crust that a deep fryer would have given it. I'd also have more fat to dampen the temperature swings, along with an automatic thermostat.
I'm really not sure how much a difference soaking with buttermilk vs not soaking makes. I'm going to marinate 1/2 a chicken today in the same marinade (minus the tarragon which seemed pointless), and then reserve 1/2 the chicken plain. Tomorrow I'm going to try deep frying the pieces in my big 1gal GE basket unit rather than pan-frying.
I think I'll try something else too. Butterflied chicken breasts and thighs that have been boned. Then everything can be eaten with a fork except the drumsticks which are great to chow by hand. Everything will also have relatively equal thickness for that perfect ratio of crust to meat. Then simply serve the chicken/milk gravy over top the pieces.
Gotta' read the posts here and then get some errands done.
ChefJune
Master Chef
That's a curious number of pieces. Most chefs cut chicken into 8 pieces, (or four, if they're being over-generous).
I learned from my Farm-wife aunts how to cut up chicken, and I cut it into 10 pieces.
For me, cutting the wing as a separate piece, and leaving the breast as a too-large hunk has never made sense. I start by cutting the wishbone (the upper-central breast) and then divide the remaining breast down the middle. Cutting the bone across on the diagonal below the wing makes two fairly evenly sized pieces of chicken. I also separate the lower back from the thighs.
I would agree about the number of pieces. Two wings, 2 drum sticks, 2 thighs and at least 2 breats. Country style would cut the back away from the breast meat for another two pieces. And also cut the wishbone away from the front of the breast--called the pully bone in the South.
I usually cut the breasts in half again to make all the pieces more nearly the same.
As for not having anything left in the bottom of the pan to make gravy, that is not exactly the point. The grease is now flavored with the chicken. You make the roux with that, brown the flour a bit and have a lovely gravy. You don't need to have "cribblin's" left in the bottom, and certainly not any crust.
I usually cut the breasts in half again to make all the pieces more nearly the same.
As for not having anything left in the bottom of the pan to make gravy, that is not exactly the point. The grease is now flavored with the chicken. You make the roux with that, brown the flour a bit and have a lovely gravy. You don't need to have "cribblin's" left in the bottom, and certainly not any crust.
kitchenelf
Chef Extraordinaire
You have got to try the milk gravy using the pan drippings or any way you want to make a roux. You've got that wonderful flavored oil - use it! Beurre Blanc is NOT the same as a nice pan gravy made with a roux.
It almost sounds like you think you are going to ruin your pan? I can't really tell.
If you do choose to make the gravy in a separate pan be sure and use the oil from the frying chicken to make it - at least you are transferring some of the flavor.
It's been a long time since I've made a milk gravy but I remember putting a tiny amount of rubbed sage in it and you can buy a jar of McCormick's (I think) fried chicken seasoning, I use some of that (and I also use it in my flour I dredge in along with thyme, salt, pepper, garlic powder), salt and pepper of course, lots of pepper. The sage was a nice addition though.
One time when I fried chicken I used equal parts of beer and flour - let it sit on the counter for 3 hours (this is a must). The chicken was SOOOOOOO crisp and the meat was soooooooooooo tender (that batter really sealed around the chicken and steamed it) that when I bit into the thigh I pulled all the meat off the bone having, in my hand, a chicken taco with the crust being the taco part. I can actually say that maybe it was a tad too crispy? But it was good nonetheless.
It almost sounds like you think you are going to ruin your pan? I can't really tell.
If you do choose to make the gravy in a separate pan be sure and use the oil from the frying chicken to make it - at least you are transferring some of the flavor.
It's been a long time since I've made a milk gravy but I remember putting a tiny amount of rubbed sage in it and you can buy a jar of McCormick's (I think) fried chicken seasoning, I use some of that (and I also use it in my flour I dredge in along with thyme, salt, pepper, garlic powder), salt and pepper of course, lots of pepper. The sage was a nice addition though.
One time when I fried chicken I used equal parts of beer and flour - let it sit on the counter for 3 hours (this is a must). The chicken was SOOOOOOO crisp and the meat was soooooooooooo tender (that batter really sealed around the chicken and steamed it) that when I bit into the thigh I pulled all the meat off the bone having, in my hand, a chicken taco with the crust being the taco part. I can actually say that maybe it was a tad too crispy? But it was good nonetheless.
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Seven S
Senior Cook
the people are rising and have now spoken... there is some passion behind fried chicken!!
I have seen several recipes which call for "resting" the pieces on a wire rack for a couple hours after having applied the coating.
Also curious about double-dredging - that is, after marinating in buttermilk, coating with seasoned flour, shake off excess, dip in buttermilk once again, and once again into the seasoned flour, shake off excess, then fry... would this lead to "extra-crispy"??
I am expecting someone to point out now how much they enjoy their fried chicken cold out of the refrigerator - Tyler Florence's book actually has this recipe, regular fried chicken, then refrigerate, then enjoy cold!!
I have seen several recipes which call for "resting" the pieces on a wire rack for a couple hours after having applied the coating.
Also curious about double-dredging - that is, after marinating in buttermilk, coating with seasoned flour, shake off excess, dip in buttermilk once again, and once again into the seasoned flour, shake off excess, then fry... would this lead to "extra-crispy"??
I am expecting someone to point out now how much they enjoy their fried chicken cold out of the refrigerator - Tyler Florence's book actually has this recipe, regular fried chicken, then refrigerate, then enjoy cold!!
jennyema
Chef Extraordinaire
Nicholas Mosher said:I've never bought Lard before. It comes in sticks kinda like butter?.
They sell it at Stop and Shop.
ChefJune
Master Chef
I would probably search out an ethnic store, or a farmer's market for a fresher source.jennyema said:
and tho I LOVE cold fried chicken, I cannot imagine making it strictly to eat cold!
Barb L.
Master Chef
Hope you find the method and taste you are looking for!!!Nicholas Mosher said:Wow! Lots of comments! I'll have to read through them in a minute.
Cooked off my first batch. I filled a 12" cast iron skillet 1/3 of the way with Crisco, and brought it to 325ºF.
I drained the buttermilk/mustard mixture off the pieces, hit them with salt and pepper, and coated the pieces with simple flour. I placed the breast halves and legs on the outside radius of the pan, and put the thighs in the middle. Had to play with the heat to maintain my 325ºF (I used a simple spatter guard on top like Alton Brown uses which yields a crispy/crunchy crust). After the bottom and edges were a deep golden brown I flipped the pieces once, and cooked that side until it was golden brown. Removed to a rack over some papertowels to drain where I lightly seasoned the crust with some Kosher salt.
First things first, there is no way I would bother making a pan sauce. I have a well-seasoned pan, and the only things left in the pan were melted crisco and a few flecks of flour. I think a separately prepared veloute'/bechamel using chicken stock and milk fortified with some pepper/herbs/garlic and thickened with roux made from rendered chicken fat would be much better and practical. >No, No No please don't throw that grease out- strain it, scraping pan, reserving about 4 T grease and with scrapings-, flour, either water or milk, season to taste, w/salt pepper , (I use poultry seas.) I can eat fried chicken once a week !!My comfort food!!<
The drumsticks were fantastic. The thighs were awkward to eat. The breasts were way too thick compared to the crust they had when compared to the meat/crust ratio of the legs/thighs. Alton Brown says the bottom deep-brown spot where the pieces rest on the bottom of the pan is viewed as the best part by many in the south. Personally I would have liked to have a uniform crust that a deep fryer would have given it. I'd also have more fat to dampen the temperature swings, along with an automatic thermostat.
I'm really not sure how much a difference soaking with buttermilk vs not soaking makes. I'm going to marinate 1/2 a chicken today in the same marinade (minus the tarragon which seemed pointless), and then reserve 1/2 the chicken plain. Tomorrow I'm going to try deep frying the pieces in my big 1gal GE basket unit rather than pan-frying.
I think I'll try something else too. Butterflied chicken breasts and thighs that have been boned. Then everything can be eaten with a fork except the drumsticks which are great to chow by hand. Everything will also have relatively equal thickness for that perfect ratio of crust to meat. Then simply serve the chicken/milk gravy over top the pieces.
Gotta' read the posts here and then get some errands done.
I usually buy my lard at Wal-Mart.
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OP
OP
Nicholas Mosher
Sous Chef
I wasn't going to make a beurre blanc, I was going to make a white sauce with chicken stock and milk. Cook some celery and onion in rendered chicken fat, sprinkle on the flour and make a blonde roux, then whisk in 50% chicken stock and 50% whole milk. Add some thyme/garlic/parsley and simmer to thicken a bit, then strain and serve. It's a combination veloute/bechamel.
You guys have me thinking again. I have all that crisco left in the pan out there. I'm gonna' give it a quick taste (just a pea sized piece, not an ice-cream cone full haha). I'm not worried about ruining my pan (it's bullet-proof cast iron!), it's just that 1/2" of crisco with some flour bits just didn't seem like much to base a sauce off from. I'll go taste it to see how much flavor transferred into the fat...
Oh, and solid fats definetly make a difference with room temp/cold foods. I just ate a drumstick and with the fat having solidified in the crust it melts in your mouth giving a wonderful artery-clogging mouth-feel! 
Yum!
You guys have me thinking again. I have all that crisco left in the pan out there. I'm gonna' give it a quick taste (just a pea sized piece, not an ice-cream cone full haha). I'm not worried about ruining my pan (it's bullet-proof cast iron!), it's just that 1/2" of crisco with some flour bits just didn't seem like much to base a sauce off from. I'll go taste it to see how much flavor transferred into the fat...
Oh, and solid fats definetly make a difference with room temp/cold foods. I just ate a drumstick and with the fat having solidified in the crust it melts in your mouth giving a wonderful artery-clogging mouth-feel!
Yum!
Shunka
Head Chef
ChefJune, I still cut up a chicken the way my grandmother did and Mom does, the 2 thighs, 2 legs, 2 wings, the back cut (across) in half to make 2 pieces and the breast cut (across) in 2 pieces. We don't cut down the middle of the breast as eating around the wishbone, letting dry a bit makes for happy grandkids later!!!! Most times now I save the back peices for soup; although my hubby does love those fried!!! My fav is the wings!!
OP
OP
Nicholas Mosher
Sous Chef
I pulled some pure rendered chicken fat from the 'fridge and did a taste test between that and the crisco remaining in the pan.
To be completely honest, I tasted very little flavor in the crisco other than a little aroma of toasted flour. My homemade schmaltz pretty much blows it's doors off in the flavor/aroma department.
I'm going to save a bit of the crisco and make two sauces tomorrow. One with the pan crisco and one with the rendered chicken fat I keep.
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I definetly let the flour hydrate iteself on the chicken (I didn't have any problems with hunks falling off in the crisco). I actually floured the chicken then slowly melted the crisco and brought it up to 325ºF. I reckon it had a good 30-45min by the time I got around to it. "Reckon". I can't believe that just flowed from my mind to my fingertips. Must be all the talk about southern food.
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jennyema - Thanks for the tip on where to get Lard! I'll have to try a Stop and Shop. I went to a Hannaford and Big Y and couldn't find any.
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I'm going to divide the breast into four pieces this time, but I'm going to butterfly each half rather than cut them into four thick chunks. My theory is that I will get better buttermilk penetration, and a better ratio of crispy crust to meat. So you guys fry the wings too? I just saved mine in my stock bag along with the carcass following Alton Brown. Tomorrow I'll give all 10 pieces a try. Two wings, four breast pieces, two thighs, two drumsticks. The thighs were kinda awkward to eat with the bone structure. I may try one thigh boneless and one with bones tomorrow. Going to give my deep fryer (w/Canola Oil) a shot tomorrow and compare the results to pan-frying with a solid fat like Crisco. If it loses that special something I'll go back to the Lodge.
To be completely honest, I tasted very little flavor in the crisco other than a little aroma of toasted flour. My homemade schmaltz pretty much blows it's doors off in the flavor/aroma department.
I'm going to save a bit of the crisco and make two sauces tomorrow. One with the pan crisco and one with the rendered chicken fat I keep.
-----
I definetly let the flour hydrate iteself on the chicken (I didn't have any problems with hunks falling off in the crisco). I actually floured the chicken then slowly melted the crisco and brought it up to 325ºF. I reckon it had a good 30-45min by the time I got around to it. "Reckon". I can't believe that just flowed from my mind to my fingertips. Must be all the talk about southern food.
-----
jennyema - Thanks for the tip on where to get Lard! I'll have to try a Stop and Shop. I went to a Hannaford and Big Y and couldn't find any.
-----
I'm going to divide the breast into four pieces this time, but I'm going to butterfly each half rather than cut them into four thick chunks. My theory is that I will get better buttermilk penetration, and a better ratio of crispy crust to meat. So you guys fry the wings too? I just saved mine in my stock bag along with the carcass following Alton Brown. Tomorrow I'll give all 10 pieces a try. Two wings, four breast pieces, two thighs, two drumsticks. The thighs were kinda awkward to eat with the bone structure. I may try one thigh boneless and one with bones tomorrow. Going to give my deep fryer (w/Canola Oil) a shot tomorrow and compare the results to pan-frying with a solid fat like Crisco. If it loses that special something I'll go back to the Lodge.
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OP
OP
Nicholas Mosher
Sous Chef
I love it. The "Simple" recipes are the ones people are most passionate about. 
ChefJune
Master Chef
Don't discount the lower back. It makes a great piece to gnaw on, with the tenders and the tail....
AND, imo, the wishbone is by far the choicest piece of white meat!Wings may be the best part of a fried chicken. Much more skin to meat ratio and hence crispy good.
White sauce--on fried chicken? I don't think so. Use your schmaltz if you want but gravy is gravy!! It doesn't go on the chicken anyway--on the potatoes that are served with it.
I think I would cook the chicken at a bit higher temp than 325* and I don't really think there is much to be gained by approaching the temp slowly.
I have never deep fried chicken. I'm not sure home units are up to the task to be honest.
White sauce--on fried chicken? I don't think so. Use your schmaltz if you want but gravy is gravy!! It doesn't go on the chicken anyway--on the potatoes that are served with it.
I think I would cook the chicken at a bit higher temp than 325* and I don't really think there is much to be gained by approaching the temp slowly.
I have never deep fried chicken. I'm not sure home units are up to the task to be honest.
kitchenelf
Chef Extraordinaire
Gretchen said:
LOL - everytime I read this I was mostly thinking for the mashed potatoes but I still saw, in my mind, chicken-fried steak, which can have the milk gravy on it - but yea, I would never put gravy on fried chicken!!!!
And I am ALL with you on the reasoning behind the wings being the best part! I also like the lower part of the breast (I don't know how else to describe it) - the part with all the bone attached to it!! (and don't forget it's little tale - I love that too!)
Seven S said:
I think most home-made fried chicken is pan- or shallow-fried, meaning that covering it causes the side not in the oil to get steamed. I find the baking powder makes the crust separate from the chicken and fall off in big chunks at each bite. FWIW.
***Sorry, didn't see that most of this had been said before.***
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