Mario Batali

[jkath]

Seems like we are all in agreement here - he is the real thing.
I so appreciate his methods and his sincerity with foods.
And, his pronunciations! ah!
ICA is so lucky to have him!

 

[Michael in FtW]

I liked the original Iron Chef concept - a Chef with two cooking assistants that were students at the Culinary Academy. The food was the creation of the Chef - with some cooking assistance. Iron Chef America is a tag-team competition between "teams" of cooks ... no longer is it Chef against Chef - it's team against team (IMHO).

Give me four equally competent students from Le Cordon Bleu, two for each Chef - and give me a matchup of Cat Cora and Gordon Ramsay. Now, THAT would be a show to see!

No, make it Bobby Flay against Ramsay - the insolent up against the insufferable ..... let's put attitude up against attitude!

Bobby hasn't been looking so good in those "Smackdown" shows ...

 

[Sephora]

Those are just a few examples. Chefs like Kerry Simon, Anita Lo, and Laurent Tourondel have come on the show and beaten Flay, Cora, etc. In some cases the battles weren't even close. I remember Flay losing a battle by over 10 points. Again, those are only 3 names. There have been others.

The only chef who has consistently beaten the top guys is Batali.

Cat Cora seems kind of a waste to be on there. She hardly ever wins. Flay always loses on the plating but not often on the taste when he does lose.

Michael ~ it's Throwdown and we were talking about that show. If he had actually beat the cake lady, he would have killed her business. The other guy was just launching a new line of soup and the third was a restaurant owner. If the had beaten them it could have been really bad for those people's business. Most especially the cake lady since he'd never baked before.

 

[Robo410]

I dare say there are some chefs who don't want to come to Kitchen stadium. Some pro kitchens are run quietly, without shouting ... French Laundry for example. A TV chef has to be personality as well as talent (timing, pacing etc.) and cooking ability.

As for throwdown...the judging seems very local. Any challenger who cooks outside the norm is not going to win over the home grown version. So Bobby is not out to "win" but to "play the game".

 

[ChefJune]

I dare say there are some chefs who don't want to come to Kitchen stadium.

I think some of you would be surprised to discover how many chefs have no interest whatsoever in being on Iron Chef America. or to be one of the Iron Chefs, for that matter.

 

[ironchef]

I think some of you would be surprised to discover how many chefs have no interest whatsoever in being on Iron Chef America. or to be one of the Iron Chefs, for that matter.

Exactly. The best of the best haven't even been on that show--and probably won't ever be on the show--but the Chefs I named (who are just a step or two below) have come on and kicked a$$. It has NOTHING to do with whether or not their kitchen involves shouting or no shouting, or whether or not they are a TV personality.

Because you can bring two of your sous chefs, the teamwork and cohesiveness are already there because everyone is used to working with each other. That makes ICA much, much easier than the original where as a challenger, you had two assistants with whom you've never worked with before in your life. If anyting, the format now results in LESS shouting because everyone is much more likely to be on the same page, more so than if you didn't have two assistants that you both trained and worked with. The sous chefs KNOW how much the chef wants something reduced. They KNOW how dark the chef wants something seared. The KNOW the consistency at which the chef likes his risotto.

All good chefs have an internal timer which they use to gauge everything they're making, and everything going on around them. After the secret ingredient is unvieled, it's not like boom, they start cooking. They're given a certain amount of time to go over with their sous chefs the dishes that they're making and the multiple components of each dish, the ingredients needed, prep steps, cooking times, prep and cooking duty delegations, etc., etc.

If anyone thinks that Thomas Keller wouldn't be able to compete on this show is fooling themself. The question is more along the lines of does Thomas Keller even WANT to compete on the show? Does Food Network even WANT the best of the best on the show because unless they have Batali challenge everyone, their other Iron Chef's will all be in positions to lose, and lose badly in some cases.

 

[skilletlicker]

... After the secret ingredient is unvieled, it's not like boom, they start cooking. They're given a certain amount of time to go over with their sous chefs the dishes that they're making and the multiple components of each dish, the ingredients needed, prep steps, cooking times, prep and cooking duty delegations, etc., etc.

I've often thought that a video of that discussion followed by an interview discussing the contest with the chefs afterward, would be as informative as the show itself. It probably wouldn't have as broad appeal as the regular show but maybe it could be an internet add-on.

ironchef, I agree that MB is the most competitive of the IC's, but I also enjoy watching Flay's use of chilies and southwestern ingredients. I think I'd enjoy watching Cat Cora do laundry.

 

[ironchef]

Ironchef, I agree that MB is the most competitive of the IC's, but I also enjoy watching Flay's use of chilies and southwestern ingredients.

Actually, Flay is the most competitive, as well as being the most combatant. But, Batali is more skilled and creative. Big difference between skill and competitiveness.

At first, I'll admit that I got a few ideas from Flay regarding the usages of different ground, whole, and dried chiles. But that was YEARS ago. Flay is doing the same stuff that he did in the mid to late 90's at Mesa and Bolo. C'mon, quesadillas, stuffed peppers, blooming onions?

Batali on the otherhand, has really evolved in both his technique and his usage of various types of ingredients and cuisines. He shows that he's so much more than just Italian and Mediterranean flavors. He's also shown that he's able to perform outside and above his comfort zone with the different flavors he brings to the table at every match he's in.

 

[skilletlicker]

Actually, Flay is the most competitive, as well as being the most combatant. But, Batali is more skilled and creative. Big difference between skill and competitiveness.

At first, I'll admit that I got a few ideas from Flay regarding the usages of different ground, whole, and dried chiles. But that was YEARS ago. Flay is doing the same stuff that he did in the mid to late 90's at Mesa and Bolo. C'mon, quesadillas, stuffed peppers, blooming onions?

Batali on the otherhand, has really evolved in both his technique and his usage of various types of ingredients and cuisines. He shows that he's so much more than just Italian and Mediterranean flavors. He's also shown that he's able to perform outside and above his comfort zone with the different flavors he brings to the table at every match he's in.

When I said I thought Mario was the most competitive I thought I was agreeing with you. Since this is the slow season for NBA fans I looked into the record of each. List of result statistics on Iron Chef America last modified 02:04, 14 August 2006 says Batali's record is 9 wins and 4 losses. The site lists Flay's record as 9 wins, 4 losses and 2 draws.
My impression was that Mario was farther ahead than that but, in my book at least, MB is more competitive. If there was a post-season tournament, my money would be on him.

 

[Sephora]

Actually, Flay is the most competitive, as well as being the most combatant. But, Batali is more skilled and creative. Big difference between skill and competitiveness.

At first, I'll admit that I got a few ideas from Flay regarding the usages of different ground, whole, and dried chiles. But that was YEARS ago. Flay is doing the same stuff that he did in the mid to late 90's at Mesa and Bolo. C'mon, quesadillas, stuffed peppers, blooming onions?

I have to ask, what's so bad about that? Not everyone has been watching or even had access to Food Network since the mid to late 90's. I didn't even really know about it until two years ago when I got DirecTV. I had heard about it in passing, but it wasn't available on cable. And I only discovered that I can do this thing called cooking about a year before I left CA. When you are a single mom working 40+ hours and your child would rather eat frozen burritos than chicken anything, you don't do a lot of cooking. Of course, cost is another factor. 10 burritos cost the same as two chicken breasts and last longer.

Doing the basics on a show where the world is watching, isn't so all fired bad.

I'm not saying I don't love Mario. Any Iron Chef that heads to a NASCAR track and writes a book is tops in my book. But I don't see the need to bash Bobby.

 

[ironchef]

I have to ask, what's so bad about that? Not everyone has been watching or even had access to Food Network since the mid to late 90's. I didn't even really know about it until two years ago when I got DirecTV. I had heard about it in passing, but it wasn't available on cable. And I only discovered that I can do this thing called cooking about a year before I left CA. When you are a single mom working 40+ hours and your child would rather eat frozen burritos than chicken anything, you don't do a lot of cooking. Of course, cost is another factor. 10 burritos cost the same as two chicken breasts and last longer.

Doing the basics on a show where the world is watching, isn't so all fired bad.

I'm not saying I don't love Mario. Any Iron Chef that heads to a NASCAR track and writes a book is tops in my book. But I don't see the need to bash Bobby.

Because when you're in a culinary competition, you need to pull out all the stops. I don't expect anyone who's not in the industry to understand. People who are in the industry and people who are not in the industry can watch the same show and see two completely different things. I'll just leave it at that.

Regarding what your child eats, I'm sorry to hear that but I don't see how that's relevant to this thread. If you want to discuss that further and how that affects Iron Chef America and Mario Batali/Bobby Flay, feel free to PM me and we can discuss it there.

 

[ironchef]

When I said I thought Mario was the most competitive I thought I was agreeing with you. Since this is the slow season for NBA fans I looked into the record of each. List of result statistics on Iron Chef America last modified 02:04, 14 August 2006 says Batali's record is 9 wins and 4 losses. The site lists Flay's record as 9 wins, 4 losses and 2 draws.
My impression was that Mario was farther ahead than that but, in my book at least, MB is more competitive. If there was a post-season tournament, my money would be on him.

It's not only about the record, it's about the skill level of the competition. I mean you could put the worst NBA team in the top collegiate basketball conference (the ACC) and they'd probably win every game. The record itself doesn't mean anything because it's not indicative of the whole story.

 

[Chopstix]

My friend and I had the good fortune last year of having dinner at his Babbo's restaurant in NYC. It wasn't easy to reserve a table. It was a Saturday and the only available slot was 10pm. We went anyway, going in with high expectations what with all the hype about him. I actually went in prepared to get disappointed.

Wrong. The menu itself was fascinating to read. I was torn among so many mouth-watering and creative concoctions being described. In the end, our meal was absolutely superb! One of the best meals of my life. For dessert, we couldn't choose between two kinds but finally settled on sharing just one. But guess what? Our server brought BOTH kinds and charged us for only one! So, great service on top of great food! (The place had great ambience too!)

 

[Sephora]

Regarding what your child eats, I'm sorry to hear that but I don't see how that's relevant to this thread. If you want to discuss that further and how that affects Iron Chef America and Mario Batali/Bobby Flay

Had you fully read what I said I was speaking in regards to how long I've been cooking, not what she eats now, and my view of Bobby Flay and what he does.

I don't expect anyone who's not in the industry to understand. People who are in the industry and people who are not in the industry can watch the same show and see two completely different things. I'll just leave it at that.

I don't think there is a need for you to talk down to anyone on here. I was asking a legitimate question and you turned it into a way to put people, not just me, down.

 

[Ishbel]

Very few of the American TV chefs ever make it onto TV here in the UK. Well, perhaps I need to qualify that... some DO, but only on cable and satellite channels!

I was interested enough to do a search on Batali. I was interested to see that he's not an Italian, but an American! BUT, as Batali's site says he did his apprenticeship under Marco Pierre White in London... all I can say IS: If the US thinks Gordon Ramsay is TOUGH... who do you think taught HIM?!!!

Forgot to say - MPW was the youngest chef ever to be awarded a Michelin star - and he was also the first Michelin-starred chef in the UK.

Also forgot to say: MPW trained some of the best chefs in the UK today, eg Marcus Wareing, Gordon Ramsay.

 

[Robo410]

I do not disagree with the assessment of IC. And I would like to see some new blood in further seasons. But I always keep in mind: what is the purpose of TV and this network in general. Entertainment, instruction, product identification/advertizing, etc. All in all, something for everybody in there somewhere. And if it raises awareness of such issues as "Cook with your kids" or "quit eating frozen prepared sludge and get some fresh ingredients" it's doing a good thing.

 

[college_cook]

I've got to say, as predictable as Flay can be sometimes, I think it's irresponsible to mistake predictability for lack of talent or creativity. You can almost always expect something hailing from the southwest from Bobby Flay, although I don't think you would expect it any less than you'd expect to see Batali making Italian food. I would also venture to say that Italian is more versatile, and that it's probably easier to get creative with. Italy being near France, you have two of the premier food regions of the world side by side, and there's also a decent amount of mingling b/w the two food regions.

The southwest has what... Mexican flavors and its own sort of BBQ/grilling culture, and I suppose you could count Navajo flavors. None of these stand out as great culinary regions like France or Italy do, and while there is a variety of flavor in that region if you look for it, it's not always easy to find two that complement each other well. Flay's working with corn and peppers while Batali is more likely to be working with garlic and wine.

 

[karadekoolaid]

I used to be able to see Mario Batali on Food TV with the "other" cable provider. Now I can't. Pity, still.. I bought his books and am fascinated by what he puts together.Wonderful stuff.

However, I'd like to emphasise another angle here. Whilst we all have our favourites and non-favourites ( I used to love watching "Two Hot Tamales"!) I think they've ALL done us a huge favour. They've begun to wake up our tastebuds. I'd make a wild, wild guess and say that perhaps ONCE a month, Mr or Mrs America makes a Bobby Flay Grill Special or Emeril's Cajun Chicken or Mario's Salsa al Ragú or even a John Ash salad. They follow the recipe blindly and buy FRESH ingredients. They cook as they should do - fresh, simple foods which provide nutrition, a huge difference to the daily carbo-mega-hydrate intake, vitamins, etc.
I'd venture to say that if 1 in 1000 American homes change their eating habits thanks to FoodTV, then we're winning the war on pre-packed, added-vitamin, take-away crap and obesity.

 

[Chief Longwind Of The North]

I used to detest Bobby Flay for his arrogance. But after watching him on "Smackdown", what I mistakenly thought was arrogance turned out to be exuberance. He is a high-energy individual, with much more than he sometimes needs. And I have known many of those personality types.

Bobby Flay, in his smackdown series, shows a boyish competitiveness, but win or lose, is more than gracious to his opponant. And he praises the other foods with enthusiasm. I have changed my attitude about him. I like the guy, at least what I can see of him on the little screen. As for his cooking skills, he is inventive, and creative, but within a limited scope. He works with what he knows and doesn't often venture into the unknown. But then again, some of the other chefs have ventured too far into the unknown. Does anyone remember trout ice-cream?

Mario is steady and strong, and well composed. His knowledge and skill are daunting. But I would wager, that if Bobby Flay and Mario Batallie were pitted against each other, the outcome would be decided not on cooking skill, but by the regional preferences of the judges.

I also believe that Itallian food is still more universally considered one of the great cuisines of the world, with Southwestern food rarely even considered among world cusines. But in my opinion, if you were to task both chefs with making a carne asada burrito, then Flay would win hands down. If a carbonara dish were asked for, then Batalli would be the champ.

Give both men their just do. They both love to cook, and to share what they know with everyone else. I'd love the chance to cook alongside either, and to get their critique of my own cooking. I bet I'd learn an awfull lot, and maybe surprise them as well with a few of my recipes.

And I think that there are several chefs and home cooks on this site that would enjoy the same opportunity.

Seeeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North

 

[Seven S]

i have to agree with most of what ironchef has said on this post... in general, i think chefs like trotter, keller, boulud are in a league of their own, with a passion and creativity that is unmatched and could run circles around the other iron chefs and all chefs on foodtv for that matter EXCEPT batali - i dare say batali is in the same league... batali reinvents himself daily and for those who think he is only italian and mediterranean, guess again! i read about him taking a trip to vietnam and thailand with tony bourdain because he has become enamored with the flavors of this region... i saw a show where batali used these influences in his dishes. the man is passionate about food and its underlying culture, history, etc. and he seems to improvise and express himself in such a talented manner that it just hurts for me as a chef, to think i am sooo far behind! i honestly dont think that flay can even come close to understanding the whole picture as batali does.

on the whole topic of foodtv, i think its simple to understand that the network is a business and ultimately it will cater to the bigger audience, so we will continue to see more and more shows like rachel rays and the skinny blonde that cooks stews with campbell soup in crock pots, because that is where the money is. expect to see less and less shows about just food itself and more about the food travels and the like. i honestly think that just like MTV led to VH1 and ESPN led to ESPN2 and ESPN classics, somewhere in the future we will see FOOD NETWORK lead to the creation of other real food channels that can focus more on worldly chefs and produce and wine and all the really good stuff, you know!?