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Old 05-19-2007, 06:04 PM   #1
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ISO Help Making Pizza Dough

ok, making pizza dough is hard I think. I try different recipes and as much as people say TNT - it's still very difficult "lol". I found a tip/recipe that i followed today. I need some help in figuring out what i might of done wrong. The dough was VERY tasty and the pizza actually turned out pretty good. But, I feel something went wrong. This is what I did.

Took a cup of water and made sure it was 110 degrees
Add Active Yeast Packet in and a few drops of honey. I think it was a bout a teaspoon of honey.

Let is sit for 10 minutes. Did I see foam? YES. Was it a lot of foam? NO
Not as much foam as I have seen in the past with successful pizza's. But it did definetely foam up.

Added that to about 2.5 cups of whole wheat flour plus .5 cup of all purpose flour. Also in the flour mixture had some spices in there "oregeno, salt, onion powder".

With my kitchen aide mixture kneaded it on low speed 2 for 10 minutes. I did have to add some water from the sink as it was very dry.

let is rise for at least an hour. Ontop of a warm oven. Did it rise? Hard to say. It did, but not double in size. At this point I thought as I have seen in the past..oh oh flop, it just didn't rise properly. Than I cooked it on a pizza stone for 5 minutes. Took it out and added toppings and back in oven for 7 minutes. It was a shrimp alfredo pizza. There were bubbles in the pizza, but it was VERY VERY thin and didn't have any ump to it. I really though this is going to taste pretty yucky. But than to my surprise the dough as thin as it was....was GOOD and TASTY. but I still feel something went wrong.

I really liked this recipe and would like to try to figure out what the heck is wrong with it...if anything.

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Old 05-19-2007, 07:05 PM   #2
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I don't make pizza dough anymore, but when I did, I used an old recipe from Fannie Farmer. If I remember correctly, you disslove the yeast in a cup of warm water (about 105 degrees) and let set for about 5 minutes or so. Add 1 tsp sugar, 1 tsp salt, and 1 tbl olive oil. Stir into 1 cup of flour, and gradually add about another cup of flour a little at a time. When mixture forms a ball, remove to floured surface and knead until smooth.
You can do this in your mixer, using the dough hook, but I find you still need to knead by hand a little.
Here's where it's different...do NOT let rise. Form into a crust immediately and place on pizza pan or cookie sheet.
I've learned that if you want a medium crust, go ahead and doctor it up then and put in the oven, close to the bottom, at 400 degrees. But if you want a thin crust, put the formed crust into the freezer for an hour, or until a week later, for that matter. Take it out of the freezer when you need it, add your goodies to the frozen pizza, and bake on middle shelf of oven at 375 degrees. You can put the frozen pizza directly on the shelf, if you wish. You may need to adjust these temps, according to your oven.

Don't over-do the tomato sauce, or the pizza will be soggy no matter what you do.
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Old 05-19-2007, 07:08 PM   #3
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Make sure when you are purchasing yeast to buy it from the yeast rack and buy the brand that is selling. (Sometimes shoppers buy an off brand and the name brand is stale regardless of the expiration date.) Never buy yeast off of an end rack display.

You had lousy yeast for one reason or another.

Kneading for ten minutes is a slow gentle rhythm and mixing by machine for ten minutes is a hard rotating binding. Use your own judgement as to when your ingredients are incorporated and ready for a rise.

The water that you added when your dough went dry was from the sink? So it was cold. Bingo!!!

I like your recipe too. So I'll probably be making it one day soon.
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Old 05-19-2007, 07:10 PM   #4
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I think the ratio of whole wheat to AP flour was wrong. For 2.5 cups of WW flour I would guess you should have about 1.5 cups of AP flour. Also, if the dough hasn't risen to double the size in the specified time, you should let it keep rising until it does.
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Old 05-19-2007, 07:31 PM   #5
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The best advice about yeast, legend, is to check the expiration date, regardless of the brand. Yeast is yeast. I buy my yeast in bulk and keep it in a tightly-sealed jar in the freezer.

At any rate, when making pizza dough, if you have a bread machine it's one of the best tools for ensuring good pizza dough.

All you have to do is to put the recipe ingredients in the machine and set it to the DOUGH setting. The machine will mix the ingredients and knead it much better than your two capable hands can and will put the dough through the first rise. I've been making my pizza dough like this for years and have always had the most fantastic dough.

If you don't have a bread machine, don't go out and buy one one right away. Search thrift stores and yard sales (now's prime season) and pick one up for almost nothing. You'll be glad you did.
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Old 05-19-2007, 08:01 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StirBlue
Make sure when you are purchasing yeast to buy it from the yeast rack and buy the brand that is selling. (Sometimes shoppers buy an off brand and the name brand is stale regardless of the expiration date.) Never buy yeast off of an end rack display.
I bought the yeast packet an hour before I made the dough. Down the street at Hannaford. There are Fleismans Yeast Packets and Hannaford Brand. I got the Hannaford Brand ones. Thanks for the advise!!!!
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Old 05-19-2007, 08:03 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy M.
I think the ratio of whole wheat to AP flour was wrong. For 2.5 cups of WW flour I would guess you should have about 1.5 cups of AP flour. Also, if the dough hasn't risen to double the size in the specified time, you should let it keep rising until it does.
That would equal 4 cups of flour and in reality, my total of 3 cups was too much. I should of done less so that I didn't have to add water after the fact. I guess this is pretty TNT. The purpose is to have it mostly whole wheat flour and just a little all purpose. It did seem to rise slowly. I have another 1/2 in the freezor so when I take it out, I'll give it more time to rise.
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Old 05-19-2007, 08:08 PM   #8
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I am using a Kitchen Aide mixer with a dough hook. Perhaps 10 minutes is too long as well. The only real successful pizza dough as far as rising goes was this one. Someone told me about it my baby forum:

Recipes : Kids Pissaladiere : Food Network

But, we didn't like like the taste as much. Of coruse it doesn't help that i undercooked the first batch.

The one described in my first post was VERY tasty even if it didn't have any ump. I have made pizza dough before that basically didn't rise and still tried to cook it and man was it YUCKY! That's why this one was/is confusing, because although I have a funny feelign it didn't rise as properly as it should, it still was good. I couldn't stop eating it.
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Old 05-19-2007, 11:54 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StirBlue
The water that you added when your dough went dry was from the sink? So it was cold. Bingo!!!

I like your recipe too. So I'll probably be making it one day soon.

Sorry, I should not have put in so much information. When I figured it out, I should have erased everything else.
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Old 05-20-2007, 03:18 AM   #10
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another nice thing you can try, is go to a supermarket where they have an instore bakery and ask them for some Fresh yeast.
They will very often just give you some for free, or maybe charge a tiny amount, but it`s very rare they will say No :)
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Old 05-20-2007, 06:46 AM   #11
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By the way, the whole wheat flour was from King Aurthur.

I thought I heard if the dough is too dry, you can add a little water to it once you've started kneading it. I thought the warm water was just for the yeast mixture. No? Ya, I don't remember if the water was warm or cold coming out of the sink.
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Old 05-20-2007, 07:47 AM   #12
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legend. you can and should add water (cold or warm) to dough in the mixer if it's too dry. The warm water is just for blooming the yeast initially.

When I suggested adding more AP flour, it was not t increase the total amount of dough so much as to change the ratio of WW to AP. I would shoot for a 60% WW 40% AP in the mix.
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Old 05-20-2007, 07:50 AM   #13
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I agree with there being way too much whole wheat flour to the all purpose flour. The ratio I use is - well, here's my recipe for pizza dough -


* Exported from MasterCook *
PIZZA DOUGH

1 cup +3 Tablespoon water
2 tsps olive oil
2 3/4 cups bread flour -- (13.5 oz)
1/4 cup whole wheat flour -- (1.1 oz.)
1 tsp each: garlic & onion powders
1/4 cup dry milk powder -- (.7 oz.)
2 tsps sugar
1 1/2 tsps salt
2 tsps Active dry yeast

Using a Bread Machine: Fill bread machine in the order that your model recommends.
Set machine to 'dough'; take out at end of process & spread on a Pam-sprayed pizza pan which has been sprinkle with corn meal.

Making dough by hand: In a large bowl, mix together the dry ingredients except the yeast; after mixing, add the yeast and combine.

Combine the dry ingredients with the liquids; mix together and turn out on a floured board and knead for 5 minutes. Cover with a towel and let rise for 30 minutes.

The dough is now ready.
This amount of dough will make one large pizza, two medium, or four to five individual pizzas.
For individual pizzas - divide dough into quarters.
Either freeze, refrigerate till needed, or top immediately with toppings of your choice.
If frozen, let the dough thaw in a oiled plastic bag in the refrigerator overnight.

Oven: Once you have your toppings on the dough, bake at 450° for ~15 min., or till crust is golden.

Grill: Medium to medium high heat - grill for 4 min.; remove from grill and turn grilled side up - you'll want the uncooked side down
Top with toppings; place back on grill for 6 min. more, with the lid closed, rotating if necessary.
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Old 05-20-2007, 08:17 AM   #14
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I would disagree with Andy M. I would add warm water, I use the mix of 200ml cold water to 175ml just off boiling water when I make bread dough. The mix has to stay warm as you want the yeast to keep working generating the carbon dioxide which causes the dough to rise and make the dough light. If you add cold water to the mix, you are going to drop the temperature of the yeast's environment and slow them down, so the dough will take longer to double.

When I make pizza dough (rarely admiitley), I make a straight bread dough
1 1/2 lb strong flour
2 tsp salt
2 tsp yeast (I use dried yeast that you add straight in and it starts when wet)
3 tbs oil
375ml warm water.

I leave it to rise on the stove top with tghe oven on to give some warmth. This takes 3/4hr to 1hr to double.

I would knock this back and shape to form the base(s), add the tomato sauce, toppings and cheese and bake.

Next time I may add the herbs like you did.

Hope this helps.
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Old 05-20-2007, 08:43 AM   #15
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some pictures of my yeasts

ok, this is odd. Look at these pictures. First one is after 15 minutes and to my surprise the 2nd picture is after a good 25 minutes or so. Could it take that long for the yeast to foam? Is the 2nd picture good? If so...wonder why it took so long and is that not a good sign. You know what I mean?

If it is, I should make some dough with it. It's still just sitting there, not sure if it's ok to just let it sit. I don't even have my bowl of flour ready.
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Old 05-20-2007, 09:21 AM   #16
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It looks like both pictures show active blooming yeast that is good to go.

A number of factors can effect how fast yeast blooms: The temperature of the water, the amount of sugar/honey, the freshness of the yeast and the addition of other stuff such as salt - salt can kill yeast.

Time is not the most important factor. When you see a good head of foam, you can add flour and proceed. When doing the first rise, you know you are ready when the dough doubles in size. The times these events require are not as important as the events occurring - the foaming of the yeast or the doubling of the dough.

Adding cold water to a too dry dough will do no harm. It's a relatively small amount, typically a tablespoon or two, and will not effect the large mass of dough. At worst, if you added a large quantity of cold water, it might slow down the rise to double in size.

Keep trying, you don't often acheive perfection on the first try. Keep track of the details of your attempts so you will be able to recreate your success when you are done.
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Old 05-20-2007, 10:39 AM   #17
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picture of it rising after an hour

I should of taking a picture when I first put it in the bowl. It was flat so it is rising. See picture. This is a good hour later. I have just seen it rise a lot quicker and a lot higher in the past. But than again, this is my first time working with whole wheat flour. I'm going to let it continue to rise.
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Old 05-20-2007, 10:56 AM   #18
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Whole wheat flour will naturally result in a denser dough that rises less. This is why a mixture of WW and AP is recommended. The WW flour particles prevent gluten from forming lots of bubbles that will puff up and cause the dough to rise as much.
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Old 05-20-2007, 11:01 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy M.
Whole wheat flour will naturally result in a denser dough that rises less. This is why a mixture of WW and AP is recommended. The WW flour particles prevent gluten from forming lots of bubbles that will puff up and cause the dough to rise as much.
I was just reading about this somewhere else. Will it make any difference if I let it rise longer like 2 hours or so instead of 1 hour. Or will that not make any difference?

I did a different ration this time actually especially since the last time I had to add water due to it being so dry. and I did add a LOT of water "lol". Almost 1/4 of a cup at once.

My ratio I used this time was 2 cups of whole wheat flour and .5 cups of all purpose flour. INSTEAD of 2.5 cups of whole wheat flour and .5 cups of all purpose flour.

I will eventually punch it down and put it in the freezer since I'm not actually making pizza today.
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Old 05-20-2007, 11:04 AM   #20
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Here's a link to a site that is very helpful. The linked page discusses the qualities of different flours. Scroll down to about half way through the page and read what it says about whole wheat flour. It wxplains why a 50/50 combination of AP and WW is desireable.

I don't think you will ever get a WW dough to rise like an AP flour dough.
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