New Knife =) Recommended!

[chef_william]

I.O Shen 21cm chefs knife

AWESOME somes it up!!

IOSHEN, the home of IOSHEN Knives and Knife Wizard Sharpening Machines - Home

Awesome edge - super sharp, stays shapr.....

Balance is perfect and the knife is gorgeouse!

Well happy & very much recommended, looking fowrad to enlarging my collection - well worth the dollar, and a bargain id say too...... Just thought id let you know =)

[buzzard767]

Originally Posted by chef_william

I.O Shen 21cm chefs knife

AWESOME somes it up!!

IOSHEN, the home of IOSHEN Knives and Knife Wizard Sharpening Machines - Home

Awesome edge - super sharp, stays shapr.....

Balance is perfect and the knife is gorgeouse!

Well happy & very much recommended, looking fowrad to enlarging my collection - well worth the dollar, and a bargain id say too...... Just thought id let you know =)

I'm probably upsetting the applecart here but I need to reply. First of all the following is a quote from their site;

"An Introduction to I.O.Shen Knives

For many years, knife manufacturers have been trying to achieve the ultimate cutting edge which is rated using a Rockwell degree scale (liken it to degrees Fahrenheit) - the highest being Rockwell 62° (this is like the boiling point of water).

However, the brittleness of the knife has made this impossible to produce commercially without using a Damascus method, which is very expensive. I.O.Shen have overcome this problem by sandwiching 2 softer outer layers of steel with Rockwell 62° to produce the ultimate cutting edge.
We call this Triplex Steel Technology.

All the knives in the I.O.Shen range (12 in total) have used the very latest technology to construct a blade that is not only amazingly sharp but will also retain their edge for a phenomenal amount of time. They have also been hand sharpened to a 15° angle, which allows for wonderful slicing and portion control."

The Rockwell C scale, and this is the Rockwell scale they are referencing, runs from 0 to 80, not 62. RHc 62 is about average for Japanese kitchen cutlery (Hocho) so no big deal here.

It bugs me that they're pushing this Triplex Technology thing as if they invented it yesterday or something. This technique is common to nearly all Japanese knives and they've been doing it since the 13th century.

I'm not going to spend anymore time mousing their site unless someone gives me reason, but it irritates me that I haven't seen what the steel actually is. Most Japanese manufacturers are proud of the steels they use and freely say, Hitachi blue, white, blue super, Cowry-x, ZDP-189, Swedish 13C27, VG-10, etc.

I wouldn't buy a knife from these people for anything. The're more marketers than quality cutlery manufacturers.

EDIT: okay, found it, Chinese. Taiwan. That explains a lot. Any of you ever purchase a Chinese made "Sabatier"? Yeah, they make 'em - not very well though...

[chef_william]

Fair enough points...... still, i find it an excellent knife & ive never heard a bad word against them. Each to their own though!

[Rob Babcock]

What do they cost? You can get a Japanese-made Tojiro 240 mm Gyuto for about $60. I wouldn't pay more for an unknown Chinese knife. Country of origin isn't everything, but as Buzz points out, this technique has been used in Japan since Medieval times. I can only think of a small handful of good laminated knives that aren't Japanese (I think Mora knives come from Sweden).

Still, the best knife is whichever one you prefer. If it cuts well and fits your hand, it's probably going to serve you well.


Edited for spelling/cranial-vapor-lock!

[chef_william]

£44.95 but i got 10% as it was the last one in stock (display model) so worked out as £40.95 - about $60 i think...

They are used by many great, famous chefs too - including heston blumenthal.... I know this doesnt mean much, but i dont see people like him using nything but the best of knives.

Do we have a link stating that these knives are chinese? I cant find one....

I also have a kasumi knife, and i must say this one does fair better in comparison. I dont feel they are trying to make out that their technology is ground breaking tbh, mearly outlining the better selling points oftheir knives which any company would of course!

[buzzard767]

Originally Posted by chef_william

£44.95 but i got 10% as it was the last one in stock (display model) so worked out as £40.95 - about $60 i think...

They are used by many great, famous chefs too - including heston blumenthal.... I know this doesnt mean much, but i dont see people like him using nything but the best of knives.

Do we have a link stating that these knives are chinese? I cant find one....

I also have a kasumi knife, and i must say this one does fair better in comparison. I dont feel they are trying to make out that their technology is ground breaking tbh, mearly outlining the better selling points oftheir knives which any company would of course!

BP closed at $1.985699 today so your knife is more like $81.
Anyway, Chef William. Your knife might be just fine, but I would not buy an unknown steel when such wonderful Japanese knives are available at comparable prices.

Company :

Iou Shen International Co., Ltd.

Address:

54,Alley 67, Lane 112, Chung Ching Rd., Taichung406, Taiwan, R.O.C.

Telephone:

886-4-2425-7003, 886-4-2425-9000

Fax:

886-4-2426-0184

Contact Person :

Ali Li (Title: President)

E-Mail:

nirey.taiwan@msa.hinet.net





Buzz

[Rob Babcock]

Originally Posted by chef_william

£44.95 but i got 10% as it was the last one in stock (display model) so worked out as £40.95 - about $60 i think...

I guess that's a fair price if it's a good knife. Although that's more than a comparable Tojiro.

Originally Posted by chef_william

I also have a kasumi knife, and i must say this one does fair better in comparison. I dont feel they are trying to make out that their technology is ground breaking tbh, mearly outlining the better selling points oftheir knives which any company would of course!

Perhaps I'm reading it wrong, then. It seems to me that they're implying that they invented the process of combining a very hard jigane with a softer hagane, san mai style.


I'm not trying to bash your knives, they may be great. It's just odd that I've never heard of them before now.

[DrThunder88]

Originally Posted by buzzard767

I'm not going to spend anymore time mousing their site unless someone gives me reason, but it irritates me that I haven't seen what the steel actually is. Most Japanese manufacturers are proud of the steels they use and freely say, Hitachi blue, white, blue super, Cowry-x, ZDP-189, Swedish 13C27, VG-10, etc.

I totally agree. Always assume what they're not telling you is what they don't want you to. Good steel is usually a strong selling point, but selling mediocre steel as simply "high carbon stainless" or "surgical stainless" is an even stronger one!

EDIT: okay, found it, Chinese. Taiwan. That explains a lot. Any of you ever purchase a Chinese made "Sabatier"? Yeah, they make 'em - not very well though...

I actually do have one or two. They're not bad, but they certainly aren't good. The company that markets them also does so for Farberware, KitchenAid, and Cuisinart.

Originally Posted by Rob Babcock

...good laminated knives that aren't laminated...

I'm a bit confused by this phrase. "Laminated knives that aren't Japanese," maybe?

The marketing on that website is highly specious. Their alleged understanding of the Rockwell C scale is also suspect, but 62 HRC is excellent if correct. I'm not badmouthing your new baby, chef_william. If you like the knife and it works for you, great find!

[buzzard767]

Originally Posted by DrThunder88

Their alleged understanding of the Rockwell C scale is also suspect, but 62 HRC is excellent if correct.

Yes and no. Some steel like "high carbon stainless" (whatever that is because they don't tell you that it's probably ordinary 440A) are not capable of performing at that hardness. They need to to be more in the range of 56 HRc. Good knife blade steels tend to have much smaller carbides and will not crumble under hard use. There is a tradeoff in that no matter how much I love Hitachi white and blue steels capable of holding an edge many times longer than a typical Solingen forged steel, If I misuse the edge, it will chip. There is a small learning curve.

I have a Yoshikane 240mm Gyuto enroute. It's made of SKD tool steel hardened to HRc 64 AND will take a very sharp edge. This might be the answer. Time will tell.

Buzz

[Rob Babcock]

Originally Posted by DrThunder88

I'm a bit confused by this phrase. "Laminated knives that aren't Japanese," maybe?

Oooops! Yes, I meant to say "Japanese." Sometimes my fingers get ahead of my brain!