Knock You Naked Brownies (from The Pioneer Woman)

[joesfolk]

They sound like great brownies but I can't see myself opening 60 caramels to make brownies.

 

[buckytom]

i'm surprised that anyone has a problem with this being an original recipe since it begins with a box of cake mix.

that sort of kills the original recipe thing, no?

 

[joesfolk]

I don't know. I mean would you have a problem with a soup made using a can of tomatoes and peppers? Is it not the same thing?

 

[buckytom]

no, it's not. a canned ingredient is a single ingredient, plus maybe some salt and other stuff that's there from processing.

a box mix is a nearly completed thing. you're just adding stuff to make them more brownie-like. the main part of this recipe was created by people in hair nets and smocks over giant tubs if ingredients.

please don't start the "creating the universe" arguement about original recipes. maybe this should be called pw's knock yourself naked from a box mix brownies.

 

[Addie]

Where did Linguini go? She never came back to defend her position. I have the feeling she is a secret agent of "Marlbor Woman"

She skulks through the back alleys of bakeries spraying graffiti against

"Pioneer Woman"​

All said in jest!​

 

[Addie]

no, it's not. a canned ingredient is a single ingredient, plus maybe some salt and other stuff that's there from processing.

a box mix is a nearly completed thing. you're just adding stuff to make them more brownie-like. the main part of this recipe was created by people in hair nets and smocks over giant tubs if ingredients.

please don't start the "creating the universe" arguement about original recipes. maybe this should be called pw's knock yourself naked from a box mix brownies.

No matter what you call it, no one in their right mind wants to see me nekkid!!

 

[Greg Who Cooks]

i'm surprised that anyone has a problem with this being an original recipe since it begins with a box of cake mix.

that sort of kills the original recipe thing, no?

I don't see any place where Pioneer Woman claimed or implied it was her original recipe. That and as you stated about the package mix makes any controversy ridiculous.

Where did Linguini go?

It seems sort of obvious, and I'm sure that was your point. CD gets pretty good search engine coverage. It seems likely that anybody who googles PW every day is going to get any related topics on CD.

I have googled the subject of a CD topic and found that Google had the topic the very same day!!! My hat's off to the excellent SEO work the admins have done. (That's "search engine optimization," what you do to a website to make sure the search engines can find stuff on your site and direct visitors your way.)

 

[Addie]

I wouldn't be surprised if MW didn't send Linguine here to try and stir up trouble. Her advertisers must be leaving her and she is not making the money she thought she would with her site. And every time someone goes to Google her, and then visit, she has to pay for the reference. Google is not free for those registered with them. That's how Google makes their money. She makes her money from her advertisers on her site.

 

[buckytom]

I don't see any place where Pioneer Woman claimed or implied it was her original recipe. That and as you stated about the package mix makes any controversy ridiculous.

exactly, how can anyone say a recipe is stolen when the major ingredient is a store bought mix? that lends credence to the idea that mw is on a witch hunt for her own gain.

 

[Linguine]

Where did Linguini go? She never came back to defend her position. I have the feeling she is a secret agent of "Marlbor Woman"

She skulks through the back alleys of bakeries spraying graffiti against

Sorry, I don't come here very often. No, I don't work for Marlboro Woman. I'm an intelligent individual who can smell a phony a mile away. In my opinion, PW is about as disingenuous as they come.

You've been quite harsh on MW who it seems, to me at least, is only trying to present a well-documented case for plagiarism. She/He has photos of the lifted recipes plus the cookbooks Drummond stole from. Plus there are 2 other websites: Pie Near Woman and The Pioneer Woman Sux who also have documented evidence of Ree's less-than-pioneer lifestyle.

There's always two sides to a story and I happen to believe these websites have called it like it is.

 

[Greg Who Cooks]

I'm an intelligent individual who can smell a phony a mile away.

It's funny and ironic that you and I seemingly share that.

You've been quite harsh on MW who it seems, to me at least, is only trying to present a well-documented case for plagiarism. She/He has photos of the lifted recipes plus the cookbooks Drummond stole from. Plus there are 2 other websites: Pie Near Woman and The Pioneer Woman Sux who also have documented evidence of Ree's less-than-pioneer lifestyle.

Yeah, I too would spend many hours a day to oppose the injustices committed by just one woman. I'd spend most of my days thinking about this one woman. I'd surely stalk her. I would be very envious of her way with words, I'd be very envious of her blog and evidently she has a Food Network TV program and I'd envy that too.

I'd probably even post three oppositional sites, just because I'm so committed to hating this one person. And I'd Google her every day. I would join Internet forums and I would make my attack on PW as my very first post, and I wouldn't be distracted by contributing anything else to these forums that doesn't support my mission.

Please quote where she said she invented any recipe. All I've seen PW do is document recipes, in an amusing and thorough style. Please give us a quote where she claimed any of her recipes are her original creations. Please give us an explicit quote where she infringes other peoples' copyrights.

She is original in the way she describes and documents her recipes. We can always hate her for that.

 

[bakechef]

Exactly! I read a lot of cookbooks and recipes on the internet. I see the same recipes over and over with only slight modifications here and there. Just look for chocolate cake recipes and you will see hundreds of variations on the Hershey's recipe on the back of the cocoa can, with no credit given to Hershey, even the Barefoot Contessa uses the basic recipe and calls it her own.

Same goes for the classic 1-2-3-4 cake, that recipe is everywhere.

I am pretty sure that her publisher made sure that there wasn't any plagiarism at least nothing that would get them sued.

. Plus there are 2 other websites: Pie Near Woman and The Pioneer Woman Sux who also have documented evidence of Ree's less-than-pioneer lifestyle.

What exactly does this mean? Is her husband not a rancher? Does her website not contain hundreds of pictures of her life, her nice home, her lodge with the dream kitchen, her expensive SUV? Please explain how she is misrepresenting her lifestyle. It's not like it is full of pictures of her and her kids in pioneer clothes, beating laundry on a rock.

 

[Greg Who Cooks]

The issue isn't whether PW is copying the idea of the recipe. An idea of a recipe cannot be copyrighted or patented. Not even the list of ingredients can be copyrighted. Only the description of how you make it, the method, can be copyrighted. If you describe a recipe in your own words then you are not violating any copyright. Evidently PW is being accused of "stealing" the ideas for recipes and putting them on her website. But there's nothing wrong with using the ideas of others. It's perfectly legal as long as PW writes her own descriptions and from what I've seen that's exactly what she does. In fact that's why I like her site, because she is good with words and often clever too.

 

[Addie]

Pioneer Woman is simply a title she has chosen for her style of cooking and writing. Not her lifestyle. And she has been very successful at it. Otherwise she wouldn't be able to afford the lovely home she has. She and her husband work hard for their money. Every worked on a ranch? It is not an easy job. The men and women who choose to do this work do so for a love of the land. And they see their part as saving the land from big developers.

Why shouldn't they have a lovely home, drive a nice vehicle? Would you deny them the fruit of their efforts?

And has been pointed out in this thread, when a list of ingredients start with... One box of cake mix, you can hardly say that recipe is copyrighted. Where is the plagiarism there?

Can you give one ironclad example of plagiarism on her part? Something that the originator of that recipe could take to court and win with certainty?

 

[Greg Who Cooks]

The list of ingredients has nothing to do with it. Lists of ingredients cannot be copyrighted. Nor does the inclusion of a package ingredient (e.g. a cake mix) prevent copyrighting of the written method. A description of a method is a copyrightable authorial work. The words are what's copyrighted, not the list and not the idea. As long as PW wrote it up herself--and it appears she did--then she hasn't violated anybody else's copyright, and in fact even has her own copyright on the words she used to describe the method for making these brownies.

Just repeating, the presence of a package ingredient on the ingredient list has absolutely nothing to do with whether a written method is copyrighted. In fact the ingredient list has nothing to do with the copyright. The only thing relevant to copyrights is the words used in describing the method. Only that matters. Nothing else matters.

 

[FrankZ]

One of the things I like about the PW site is not just the recipe, but the photo essay of the process. Sometimes people don't say well what they mean with instructions and the photos really help show how she got her recipe done. I wish more people took the time to document the process with pictures (and well done, pictures at that).

Bread is 4 ingredients. Unless you created your recipe 5000 years ago, you are just using someone else's recipe.

 

[Greg Who Cooks]

Most people like the detailed step-by-step accompanied by pictures and PW does that well. As much as I know other people like that, I'm not one of them, but what I really like is that PW posts a summary recipe at the end for people like me who like recipes short and sweet. I like to look at the photo essay and then if I want to save the recipe to a local copy I cut 'n paste the final short version of the recipe. (And include the URL in my notes.) PW pays a lot of attention to detail and I like that. I like that she knows some people don't want to cook from a long version of the recipe, people like me.

 

[FrankZ]

Most people like the detailed step-by-step accompanied by pictures and PW does that well. As much as I know other people like that, I'm not one of them, but what I really like is that PW posts a summary recipe at the end for people like me who like recipes short and sweet. I like to look at the photo essay and then if I want to save the recipe to a local copy I cut 'n paste the final short version of the recipe. (And include the URL in my notes.) PW pays a lot of attention to detail and I like that. I like that she knows some people don't want to cook from a long version of the recipe, people like me.

Yes, you have the right of it. I tend to go to the bottom, look at that, then scan back up.

Though the pictures can be food porn and enjoyable even if I am not going to make the recipe.

 

[Greg Who Cooks]

That's exactly why I started this topic: food porn! I have absolutely no intention of cooking Knock You Naked Brownies. I'd eat most of them myself and I'd be sick for days. I'd rather look at the pictures and read the article and enjoy the brownies vicariously, and I posted the OP because I thought the blog article was interesting and worth reading. (I think some of the DC members might enjoy cooking it too.)

I have saved several of her other recipes like the Crash Hot Potatoes, something I have every intention of cooking. BTW you can find dozens of Crash Hot Potatoes on the Internet, many of them virtually identical to PW's version. But none of them have word-for-word identical descriptions of the method. PW didn't invent it, she documented it, and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[Merlot]

I bought PW's book awhile back and it is so enjoyable..... I really recommend it to anyone who likes to "read" a cookbook. It's not so much the recipes but her style of writing and the pictures were fun (both of the food and her family on the ranch)