Need spices and flavouring help!

[Alix]

Is there some reason you can only take ONE food type? Couldn't you make some really good trail mix to cover the fruit/grain/dairy portion of your diet and then carry some jerky to cover the meat eaters?

 

[ntbsnthlrchn]

Sorry I can't respond to everyone, but I have read everyone's posts. Sometimes it's hard to have a meaninful discussion about over a forum.

I'll look into the suggestions people have made, thanks for the proffesional opinions. I'm starting to think this is more a project for an industrial food processing specialist or something, though.... And that it might not be practical in a home kitchen? I also see some people don't like the idea of just one food replacing the usual cooking/food. Maybe they recognise this as a distopic culture shift?

There's haute cuisine, and this is just the other end of the spectrum, I still think it has it's niche too.

Think Genghis. No luxuries, One coat. One food. One empire.

I can appreciate those who don't think a one food is worth it, but my friends and I still think it would be useful, or at the very least kinda cool. Also, if for other reasons, so do some folks who posted on the metafilter discussion I have linked to.

 

[Gretchen]

I don't think you have ever said EXACTLY why your friends AND you need to have this one size fits all foodstuff for ample nutrition.
Would you please tell us that. It will undoubtedly help.
AND for what time will this OSFA food need to be eaten? Days, weeks, months? All the time, some of the time, once in a while?
Some of us, including me, have assumed it was for camping because that is what it sounded like. I think this is incorrect.
SO, we really need to know a bit more of the context of this food need in order to help you realistically.

 

[Shunka]

I think some of the problem with keeping up with replies is that you posted the same thing at least 5 times. Even back in Genghis' time (holds true for most any very early people), they did have more than "one food" to sustain them on a trip; usually a dried meat (jerky of some sort), a sort of bread (whether it resembles a tortilla, pita, flat bread, biscuit of some sort,whatever you want to call it; they did usually have it)and at least water. Plus they were good at gathering seeds/veggies/fruits where ever they camped for the night. With just these few things they could and did make sustaining broths/soups/mush. I really do think that you need to rethink this or at least research what has already been developed by NASA, armed forces, etc.

 

[ntbsnthlrchn]

No offense, sounds like "greull". I can't quite see how a liquified mush is gonna be palateable, unless it is through a tube.


There is a LARGE variety of low impact, low pack, low prep, HIGHLY tasty camp food. Don't "blenderize" things...if that is what they want, pack some ensure for every meal.

I have found out about ensure, but it's too expensive, plus it's not made of real food. The trouble with all these premade things is they cost a small fortune..... MREs would work out to 21 USD per day, plus shipping, otherwise, yeah, they'd be great. Ensure for example, even if we could carry it is about 19$ per day, and it contains excessive amounts of some nutrients (I'm perplexed as to why they do that.) Like manganese, which can cause brain damage.

I don't have to "blenderize" things, that's just what I first tried, being at a loss for how else to start about it.

 

[Alix]

OK, I get your idea about having one food to carry etc. However, there is no way something with ground meat and the other things you are putting together are going to work. It is just flat out icky.

Since you appear to be looking at covering all the food groups why don't you look at alternative forms of protein? There are vegans who live quite happily without meat of any kind. This would work much better for your food bar or whatever the heck you want to call your creation. Try tofu, or nuts or legumes to get the desired protein. If you do a bit of research I think you can have some success.

Try, almonds, oats, milk powder, dried fruit and a binder. That would be a good start.

 

[ntbsnthlrchn]

I think some of the problem with keeping up with replies is that you posted the same thing at least 5 times. Even back in Genghis' time (holds true for most any very early people), they did have more than "one food" to sustain them on a trip; usually a dried meat (jerky of some sort), a sort of bread (whether it resembles a tortilla, pita, flat bread, biscuit of some sort,whatever you want to call it; they did usually have it)and at least water. Plus they were good at gathering seeds/veggies/fruits where ever they camped for the night. With just these few things they could and did make sustaining broths/soups/mush. I really do think that you need to rethink this or at least research what has already been developed by NASA, armed forces, etc.

Sorry, I originally posted these things only once on different threads, but an admin merged them into one thread. So that seems to be causing some confusion, but maybe it's better to have the discussion in one place. I have also looked into things NASA does (not really appropriat for my situation, but interesting nonetheless) and the military - for the most part they used hydrated canned foods like C rations (a possibility) MREs, and freeze dried foods (way too expensive).

What I said about Genghis Khan is from a quote from (reportedly) him:

Heaven has abandoned China owing to its haughtiness and extravagant luxury. But I, living in the northern wilderness, have not inordinate passions. I hate luxury and exercise moderation. I have only one coat and one food. I eat the same food and am dressed in the same tatters as my humble herdsmen. I consider the people my children, and take an interest in talented men as if they were my brothers. We always agree in our principles, and we are always united by mutual affection. At military exercises I am always in front, and in time of battle am never behind. In the space of seven years I have succeeded in accomplishing a great work, and uniting the whole world in one empire. - Ghenghis Khan

So, I wouldn't want heaven abandoning us, now would I? Especially out in the middle of nowhere. And we're a bunch of destute students, in Canada (read: northern wilderness), so it fits perfectly....

 

[Alix]

Ottawa is far from a northern wilderness.

I realize you are having a tough time keeping up with all the replies in this thread, but I would be interested in hearing your comments about using an alternative protein source in your "creation".

 

[ntbsnthlrchn]

I don't think you have ever said EXACTLY why your friends AND you need to have this one size fits all foodstuff for ample nutrition....
.

I just need something, anything, that's cheap and includes what the FDA recommends for a day's food intake. About 3300 cal. If it's bulky I can dehydrate it, it just should be a OSFA food (if I may use your terminology). I think I can get access to a vacuum pump. A bar of some kind, I must admit, though, would be ideal, I suppose I just subconciously ruled that out as being too difficult, but maybe it's not?

 

[Gretchen]

I still want to know what and where this concoction is going to be used.

I have also looked into things NASA does (not really appropriat for my situation, but interesting nonetheless)

And what is this "situation".

 

[ntbsnthlrchn]

I still want to know what and where this concoction is going to be used.

I have also looked into things NASA does (not really appropriat for my situation, but interesting nonetheless)

And what is this "situation".

Cross country ski camping type stuff. It's all in preliminary planning still, and how long we stay etc. will depend many factors, including what kind of food we can come up with. Anything to get out of the city for a couple of weeks, really.

 

[ntbsnthlrchn]

Ottawa is far from a northern wilderness.

I realize you are having a tough time keeping up with all the replies in this thread, but I would be interested in hearing your comments about using an alternative protein source in your "creation".

I'm just kidding about the wilderness . All of Canada's a wilderness compared to some countries. Ah, I see you're in edmonton, how did you know where I was? My IP?

Well okay, if you're interested, here you go (I haven't considered taste, only nutrition):

I have looked into it a bit. Actually whey protein concentrate (which is about 70% protein, you can also get whey protein isolate, 95%) is much cheaper than meat by grams of protein, but it doesn't have some of the other good stuff in it meat has e.g. iron. (I suppose I thought about taste a bit here, in a way.... whey concentrate tastes bad, like rotten milk. But, they make it taste good by adding the appropriate flavours and sweeteners? They don't do anything else to the whey protein concentrate, I think, just covering up the flavour. www.proteinfactory.com I actually ordered from once. ) That's mostly what they use in ensure for protein.
Soy is good too, it has some stuff like isoflavones that might not be so great but that's okay.

Lentils, beans, they're all good and would do if they were preffered over meat for some reason. Also if you're sleeping in a tent or small cabin with several other individuals.... Well I couldn't quite overlook that.

Also egg whites and lecithin are relatively inexpensive, but I didn't see any reason not to just use meat, though I could add some beans or something as well. I can afford meat (for which I am grateful), so why not?

 

[Alix]

Also egg whites and lecithin are relatively inexpensive, but I didn't see any reason not to just use meat, though I could add some beans or something as well. I can afford meat (for which I am grateful), so why not?

Well for one thing, meat doesn't work well with the other stuff you have going in there. I'm not sure if you intend this for some future commercial use, but if it is, then you are going to have to consider taste. All you need for nutritional completeness (whoo, excuse the grammar there) are the correct proportions of protein:dairy:veggie:grain. I realize that is simplistic, but its true. However, you can get pretty close to the correct proportions of these things and still have something that tastes pretty good.

If you are really going for lightweight and compact, I can't see how carrying jerky or pemmican would be an issue. Then you could focus your efforts on a lightweight bar with the other ingredients in it. That would be achievable and tasty.

Thanks for answering my question. I wish you luck on your quest, but frankly think that you need to change your basic plan.

Even folks who climb Everest eat stuff that tastes good.

 

[Alix]

Lentils, beans, they're all good and would do if they were preffered over meat for some reason. Also if you're sleeping in a tent or small cabin with several other individuals.... Well I couldn't quite overlook that.

You're kidding right? LOL! I thought that was part of what made camping attractive to men. Sorry! Just being goofy here.

 

[ntbsnthlrchn]

If you are really going for lightweight and compact, I can't see how carrying jerky or pemmican would be an issue. Then you could focus your efforts on a lightweight bar with the other ingredients in it. That would be achievable and tasty.

Carrying jerky or pemmican wouldn't be an issue, with ski camping esp.. neither would be any preservation of stuff, it will be frozen. I will indeed consider these things more closely. I seem to have very poor culinary sense, given a list of ingredients, I couldn't judge how it would taste, so I will have to take your word for it, and try it. There you go with the taste thing again!

 

[Chef_Jen]

Ok the last 2 of my posts have been ignored.. nevertheless.....

Why not can your own goods or jaryour own goods. You are able to then make lil meals in cans

For your "adventure" I would look at meal replacement bars like ive suggested a few posts back that contain nuts etc.

As for meat the ONLY and im going to say it again ONLY option you have other then canning is JERKY of some sort. that can be reconstituted with some hot water.

Jerky tastes like real meat so there would be no issue in flavour. I think you need to actually go out and try some of this stuff.. I mean youve been given 3 pages of suggestions here you admit your culinary sense isnt very good. Go out get some jerky get some lentils get some dry soup mix follow the recipe i gave you for Flapjacks then report back to us from there..

I see this post going around and around.. Poor alix is gonna loose the plot before the end of this one.

Again my suggestion. Print out this thread highlight the suggestions and go and try it!

 

[ntbsnthlrchn]

Ok the last 2 of my posts have been ignored.. nevertheless.....

Why not can your own goods or jaryour own goods. You are able to then make lil meals in cans

I have read your other posts. This would be like C rations, like the US army used to use and would okay but not a single substance. Also, I know you didn't know this when you previously posted, but I have since written we're ski camping. So we cross country ski in over large quantities of snow. Everything will be frozen solid, and preservation is a breeze. It's also easier to carry stuff than hiking becaus you can use a sled. So other than having things conveniently portioned, there's not much point in canning.

For your "adventure" I would look at meal replacement bars like ive suggested a few posts back that contain nuts etc.

Thanks, that is a good suggestion, I've been on (short) trips and eaten such stuff, but again it falls into the traditional line of things, which are good but I've already tried. Also, this is one of those recipes for real chefs.... "Combine correct amounts of each and prepare in the appropriate fashion." I'd have no idea how to make this stuff just from an ingredients list. But, don't go out of your way to give me another recipe, I'll find one when/if the time comes.

As for meat the ONLY and im going to say it again ONLY option you have other then canning is JERKY of some sort. that can be reconstituted with some hot water.

Jerky tastes like real meat so there would be no issue in flavour. I think you need to actually go out and try some of this stuff.. I mean youve been given 3 pages of suggestions here you admit your culinary sense isnt very good. Go out get some jerky get some lentils get some dry soup mix follow the recipe i gave you for Flapjacks then report back to us from there..

I already know that would probably work. What I meant by posting this thead was how to make a single complete substance. So while what to bring and pack for a trip is a useful discussion and has it's place, that's NOT what I intended this thread for. Or for alternatives to a single material food. The suggestions have indicated interesting ways to accomplish the stated objective, though.

I see this post going around and around.. Poor alix is gonna loose the plot before the end of this one.

Again my suggestion. Print out this thread highlight the suggestions and go and try it!

Everyone is saying "that won't work, this is better". I also see you've pointed out it's probably not going to happen.... bit I'd like to look into it in some depth, especially now that I see no one else seems to have really considered making such a thing before. I don't beleive it would be impossible. Also, I know something with complete "clinical nutrition" is not too hard to make, but I am shooting for real food.

Sorry if this -edit- post is a bit "off", I'm being intoxicated by electric heater fumes here..... but I think it gets the general idea.

 

[XeniA]

Well ntbs ... if ever a thread made me hanker after a warm beach, a good hotel with room service, and a fresh cappucino ... this is it.

 

[Michael in FtW]

I, personally, would not like to live off of "funky" dehydrated "bars" of "stuff" for 3-meals a day, and snacks, for 1-2 weeks!

If you are going to be on a cross-country ski trip then you will have ample water available (aka: melted snow) for reconstituting dehydrated foods. And, if you're going to be out in the wilderness exerting like you will be doing a cross counrty ski ... you're nutritional requirements will be significantly different from the "sitting on your duff in your office" FDA daily food recommendations.

As for "cookware" - a WW II Army mess kit (or even one from the Boy Scouts) will do each member fine and only weigh about 1-pound.

For vitamins and minerals - they have light weight tablets for that. For cold weather heavy exertion you need carbs, sugar, proteins and calories.

You're "situation" really sounds like a lot of the "student project" questions that we get here. Please forgive us if we sound skeptical - especially since you reject the idea of "NASA" type food.

 

[ntbsnthlrchn]

I, personally, would not like to live off of "funky" dehydrated "bars" of "stuff" for 3-meals a day, and snacks, for 1-2 weeks!...

See, people just post alternatives and that's it. I don't care about alternatives. Just how to make something which is this:

Nutritionally complete according to FDA. All real food.

O-3s can be left out.
Most of this thread is me answering why.