Your dietitian is contradicting the American Medical Association, the American Heart Association, USDA, the Mayo Clinic and many many other sources.[/QUO
gimme stats; then i may dabble in sort-of acknowledging your posts.
.....in modertion, foods of many, many sorts may be incorporated. chix/seafoood/lean beef/a multitude of cheeses.
plain as day, portioning- via restaurant or via placing dinners before another in an alternate setting.......
Vegetarian diet?
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Kathleen
Cupcake
I could easily go meatless for a week as long as I did not give up eggs and dairy. I could go vegan for a week, but would find it much more difficult to do. A day or three...sure.
I think it is possible to have a healthy diet without meat, but one needs to work hard to do it.
Personally, I love veggies; and I have a lot of vegetarian and vegan friends and co-workers. Though Frank loves meats in all forms most days, I find that I do crave steak once in a while. Regardless, the thing that has stopped me in the past from even considering a vegetarian or vegan diet is this: Every single one of my vegan/vegetarian friends take vitamin and mineral supplements. With the exception of B12, vitamins are made synthetically in a lab. Vitamin B12 is bio-synthesized by using bacteria.
What I do notice among my vegan/vegetarian friends is that they are generally non-smokers, who live a healthy lifestyle. They exercise regularly and do take notice of what they eat and seek healthier foods. Federal studies show that when compared with meat-eating counterparts who monitor their foods and live healthy lifestyles, there is no proven difference in whether one lives longer or has less chance for cancer.
Some friends do not eat meat because of the treatment of animals raised for food. I have to say that I will pay more for animals that are not tortured prior to slaughter and for free-range eggs. I want to know that the animals were fed well, treated humanely, and were not pumped up with drugs. Yes, I know I often cannot be sure, but I pay more if I know this information.
I once had an aunt who would never buy chicken parts (like the container of wings, or just thighs, etc.) The reason is she worked at a chicken processing plant, and chickens who could not be sold whole due to sores, etc. were butchered for parts and the offending part was discarded for dog food and what have you. That was years ago though. I'm unsure the practices now, but I think of it whenever I get a package of only one item.
I love the idea of knowing where my food is raised or grown, and I am becoming more health conscience. I respect anyone who alters their diet for what they feel is right for them - whether they eat meat or not. I will say that I have noticed more appreciation for things I put in my body when it was more of a conscience decision to obtain specific items.
For example, in a blind taste test, I could not tell the difference between whipped cream purchased at my supermarket and the organically obtained whipped cream purchased in the glass bottle from the local farm. However, I felt more satisfaction of supporting the local farmer and knowing how fresh the cream was.
I hope this makes sense.
~Kathleen
I think it is possible to have a healthy diet without meat, but one needs to work hard to do it.
Personally, I love veggies; and I have a lot of vegetarian and vegan friends and co-workers. Though Frank loves meats in all forms most days, I find that I do crave steak once in a while. Regardless, the thing that has stopped me in the past from even considering a vegetarian or vegan diet is this: Every single one of my vegan/vegetarian friends take vitamin and mineral supplements. With the exception of B12, vitamins are made synthetically in a lab. Vitamin B12 is bio-synthesized by using bacteria.
What I do notice among my vegan/vegetarian friends is that they are generally non-smokers, who live a healthy lifestyle. They exercise regularly and do take notice of what they eat and seek healthier foods. Federal studies show that when compared with meat-eating counterparts who monitor their foods and live healthy lifestyles, there is no proven difference in whether one lives longer or has less chance for cancer.
Some friends do not eat meat because of the treatment of animals raised for food. I have to say that I will pay more for animals that are not tortured prior to slaughter and for free-range eggs. I want to know that the animals were fed well, treated humanely, and were not pumped up with drugs. Yes, I know I often cannot be sure, but I pay more if I know this information.
I once had an aunt who would never buy chicken parts (like the container of wings, or just thighs, etc.) The reason is she worked at a chicken processing plant, and chickens who could not be sold whole due to sores, etc. were butchered for parts and the offending part was discarded for dog food and what have you. That was years ago though. I'm unsure the practices now, but I think of it whenever I get a package of only one item.
I love the idea of knowing where my food is raised or grown, and I am becoming more health conscience. I respect anyone who alters their diet for what they feel is right for them - whether they eat meat or not. I will say that I have noticed more appreciation for things I put in my body when it was more of a conscience decision to obtain specific items.
For example, in a blind taste test, I could not tell the difference between whipped cream purchased at my supermarket and the organically obtained whipped cream purchased in the glass bottle from the local farm. However, I felt more satisfaction of supporting the local farmer and knowing how fresh the cream was.
I hope this makes sense.
~Kathleen
BreezyCooking
Washing Up
Actually Kathleen, that's not true anymore. Chickens are processed/butchered according to good old demand. The popularity of different poultry products has changed DRASTICALLY in the last decade or more.
Years ago, chicken wings were simply a byproduct that people bought to use as fish & crab bait. Now they're almost a household & restaurant staple. It would take an AWFUL lot of damaged chickens to supply wings for what's needed now. Same goes for that healthy dieter's dream - the boneless skinless chicken breast (& the thighs).
It may have been true in grandma's day, but it ain't so anymore. No need to cringe when buying chicken parts these days.
Years ago, chicken wings were simply a byproduct that people bought to use as fish & crab bait. Now they're almost a household & restaurant staple. It would take an AWFUL lot of damaged chickens to supply wings for what's needed now. Same goes for that healthy dieter's dream - the boneless skinless chicken breast (& the thighs).
It may have been true in grandma's day, but it ain't so anymore. No need to cringe when buying chicken parts these days.
Kathleen
Cupcake
Good to know, Breezy! Her descriptions were horrific....and likely the reason that I'm not especially fond of chicken.
Some of the most horrific abuse you could imagine occur at every stage of chicken production, starting with male chicks being fed alive into meat grinders (they're not financially viable). They're fattened with antibiotic laced meal and grown at a rate that their legs can't keep up with. They spend their entire lives in cramped quarters where they can't spread their wings and, even if they had the space their legs couldn't support their weight for more than a few steps. The slaughterhouse your aunt spoke of may be the most humane part a chicken's existence. And, I bet the conditions now are exponentially worse.
Mimizkitchen
Head Chef
This was the first thread I viewed when I joined DC, I forgot how entertaining it was... Me personally am a meat eater, always have been, always will be... I eat my veggies, and fruits, but given the choice between a plate full of meat or a plate full of veggies, i'm going for the meat... It's a personal preference, "to be a vegetarian or not"... Who really cares, it's not my business to worry about what people think about what I do or do not eat...
BreezyCooking
Washing Up
Sorry vyapti - not entirely true. Stop with the uber-horror stories already. Good grief. You vegetarians need to get a life outside of proselytizing your cause.
It's true that hatcheries do kill a lot of male chicks from the lightweight egg-laying breeds because unlike the dual-purpose & meat-type birds they're not very saleable except for pet food processors. But not even remotely all male chicks are "fed alive into meat grinders". How dramatic of you. Yes, it does happen & it's appalling. But it's not a breed-wide industry standard.
And the use of antibiotics & growth hormones in commercial chicken feed has been a moot point for quite a long time now. I'm very surprised you're not aware of that. As for chickens being overbred to the point where, if left to mature, they can't support themselves, several of the Cornish meat breeds are. But they're butchered far far earlier in life for that to happen. Do I agree with this breeding, regardless? Of course not. But they never reach the point where they can't stand up. They're in your grocer's freezer way long before that. And even this isn't de rigeur for all poultry raisers. Many raise lighter-weight breeds that free-range.
And speaking of that, I do notice you seem to conveniently skip all the organic & free-range poultry enterprises springing up nationwide. Have you visited all of those & want to report on them as well?
If you don't wish to consume poultry, then don't. No one is forcing you. But please don't try to sway others with old, unsubstantiated, & sometimes just wrong stories that you've heard.
It's true that hatcheries do kill a lot of male chicks from the lightweight egg-laying breeds because unlike the dual-purpose & meat-type birds they're not very saleable except for pet food processors. But not even remotely all male chicks are "fed alive into meat grinders". How dramatic of you. Yes, it does happen & it's appalling. But it's not a breed-wide industry standard.
And the use of antibiotics & growth hormones in commercial chicken feed has been a moot point for quite a long time now. I'm very surprised you're not aware of that. As for chickens being overbred to the point where, if left to mature, they can't support themselves, several of the Cornish meat breeds are. But they're butchered far far earlier in life for that to happen. Do I agree with this breeding, regardless? Of course not. But they never reach the point where they can't stand up. They're in your grocer's freezer way long before that. And even this isn't de rigeur for all poultry raisers. Many raise lighter-weight breeds that free-range.
And speaking of that, I do notice you seem to conveniently skip all the organic & free-range poultry enterprises springing up nationwide. Have you visited all of those & want to report on them as well?
If you don't wish to consume poultry, then don't. No one is forcing you. But please don't try to sway others with old, unsubstantiated, & sometimes just wrong stories that you've heard.
BreezyCooking
Washing Up
And good for you Mimi!!! I fully agree!! 
Mimizkitchen
Head Chef
Breezy you just danged on my crackberry and I had to get right back online to give you the big WOO HOO This is like a conversation about religion, or politics, you have your views I have mine, don't preach to me, i'm not your business... People can have their own opinions but there is no need to try to convince people that the vegetarian way is the only way... If it is, anybody got any shoe laces I can borrow cause i'll need to hang myself...
How is this post not a personal attack.
I know that most don't agree with my views and I tend to keep them to myself. But I do and will refute false information. Your claim was false. Sorry.
Please back on track the op asked if you would be happy being a vegitarian for a week. Now were off to killing male chicks and abusive conditions for chickens.
Please stop, if you cannot ignore posts that bother you and I understand that, just skip the post if you can. Want to argue do it in PRIVATE. Each of us is entitled to our opinions, but who is to say who is right or wrong..Not me, not you. Stop and think of others feelings...
Thanks
kadesma
Please stop, if you cannot ignore posts that bother you and I understand that, just skip the post if you can. Want to argue do it in PRIVATE. Each of us is entitled to our opinions, but who is to say who is right or wrong..Not me, not you. Stop and think of others feelings...
Thanks
kadesma
I think you're wrong kadesma. Wanna fight!? Ok, you got me, you're right. I was lying to test your fabulous kung fu abilities.
Seriously though, debates are fun but only until someone's feelings are hurt. And I've said this before (I may have to write a post that I can just reference!) text is a lousy medium for emotional content. What seems innocent to you can come off as confrontational to others.
Seriously though, debates are fun but only until someone's feelings are hurt. And I've said this before (I may have to write a post that I can just reference!) text is a lousy medium for emotional content. What seems innocent to you can come off as confrontational to others.
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Mimizkitchen
Head Chef
It's easy to type without a face attached... Most people wouldn't have the "rocky mountain oysters" to say these things to someone in person... It's all puffy puffy for the thrill of the moment... Don't take it to heart, some people (as in the beginning of this thread) get pissed and don't come back... OOOP'S who cares, NOT MY BUSINESS...
P.S. you check out my cakes yet??? No, well get on it man... (she said shamelessly)
powerplantop
Executive Chef
Yes, people all around the world do.
A week I guess I could but I would not be happy with it.
I have cut back on how much meat I eat but it is still a regular part of my diet.
larry_stewart
Master Chef
Ive been a vegetarian for 20 + years , and my kids 15 and 12 have been vegetarians all their life. Based on the last 20 years, and my families generally good health, I dont think, nutritionally, we are at a disadvantage. And obviously, my week has lasted 20 + years, so that answers part II.
Years ago, when I made my dietary choice, things were a lot different. Being a vegetarian meant u ate steamed vegetables, tofu and sprouts. I can assure you, and everyone here, that those choices were crap. And at that time, did I ever miss a bowl of chili, meatball hero, sausages .... Although i was a vegetarian by choice, it wasnt necessarily for health reasons %100, which meant, I loved to eat things that tasted good. At this point in my life is when cooking became important. Sure it was a challenge, but it forced me to be more creative, try many new ingredients, and expand my cullinary tastes to many different cuisines around the world. This was before there was a cooking channel that spanned the world, or a Thai, Chinese, Mexican, Indian, Japanese ..... restaurant in every strip mall. I guess you can say I was ahead of my time. The problem Ive seen through this dietary journey is that many people who wernt vegetarians were closed minded , and assumed that our diet was limited to the few things i mentioned earlier in the post, or that all we eat is vegetables ( in their raw form). For whatever reason, at almost every social dinner, there was at least one jackass who would hold up a carot or whatever and make a stupid comment , aloud. Getting a few chuckles and pats on the back for embarrassing me and my choices. Thankfully, with the popularity of cooking, eating, food channels, multi ethnic restaurants opening up all over , the health craze, people being less ignorant and being more open minded, and the extreme increase of choices and imitation ' meat ' products out there, i find that not only do I now " blend in " when i sit down for dinners, many times people are more curious to try what I have cooked than what is on their own plate. Not that they are trying to " join the other team" , but just seeing the variety and choices I have and open mindedly trying it. It seems that cullinarily, things have come a long way.
Another problem I see is that some people, when trying a veggie burger, or sausage or whatever, the first thing out of their mouth ( other than the food they dramatically spit back on the plate) is " this doesnt taste like real meat". Well, theres a good reason for that, since it isnt real meat .When I have a vegetarina product, i dont expect it to taste exactly like what its intended to imitate, but that I can use it in a similar way. A veggie burger on a bun with pickles, lettuce, onions ....tastes great. You just got to think of it as ' something to eat' and not try to compare it to the actual meat burger itself, as they are two different things. That being said, being a vegetarian now is a whole lot different, as products are everywhere, much better looking and tasting . Also much more main stream. I never get in to a heated battle because its just not worth it. All I ask is leave the old tofu sprout raw vegetable vegetarian image at home, because its just not like that anymore ( except for those health freaks, and honestly, they can keep it). Just because im a vegetarian, doesnt mean i dont like the smell of a barbecue, or that i miss a pizza with pepperoni, sausages and meatballs on top. I can honestly say I dont miss chicken or steak at all. My closing note will be, I think if people treated a vegetarian diet as just another cuisine, just as Thai, Chinese, Indian.... it would be more accepted, than treating it as a diet for ethical health freaks ( sure we have our share of these too, im not saying we dont). I think those that are open minded and treat it like this, are the ones who enjoy it and see our point of view.
One more thing, I have been to Vyapti's site and tried many of his recipes. All vegan, and most very good with a wide variety of tastes. You should all give it a shot.
larry
Years ago, when I made my dietary choice, things were a lot different. Being a vegetarian meant u ate steamed vegetables, tofu and sprouts. I can assure you, and everyone here, that those choices were crap. And at that time, did I ever miss a bowl of chili, meatball hero, sausages .... Although i was a vegetarian by choice, it wasnt necessarily for health reasons %100, which meant, I loved to eat things that tasted good. At this point in my life is when cooking became important. Sure it was a challenge, but it forced me to be more creative, try many new ingredients, and expand my cullinary tastes to many different cuisines around the world. This was before there was a cooking channel that spanned the world, or a Thai, Chinese, Mexican, Indian, Japanese ..... restaurant in every strip mall. I guess you can say I was ahead of my time. The problem Ive seen through this dietary journey is that many people who wernt vegetarians were closed minded , and assumed that our diet was limited to the few things i mentioned earlier in the post, or that all we eat is vegetables ( in their raw form). For whatever reason, at almost every social dinner, there was at least one jackass who would hold up a carot or whatever and make a stupid comment , aloud. Getting a few chuckles and pats on the back for embarrassing me and my choices. Thankfully, with the popularity of cooking, eating, food channels, multi ethnic restaurants opening up all over , the health craze, people being less ignorant and being more open minded, and the extreme increase of choices and imitation ' meat ' products out there, i find that not only do I now " blend in " when i sit down for dinners, many times people are more curious to try what I have cooked than what is on their own plate. Not that they are trying to " join the other team" , but just seeing the variety and choices I have and open mindedly trying it. It seems that cullinarily, things have come a long way.
Another problem I see is that some people, when trying a veggie burger, or sausage or whatever, the first thing out of their mouth ( other than the food they dramatically spit back on the plate) is " this doesnt taste like real meat". Well, theres a good reason for that, since it isnt real meat
.When I have a vegetarina product, i dont expect it to taste exactly like what its intended to imitate, but that I can use it in a similar way. A veggie burger on a bun with pickles, lettuce, onions ....tastes great. You just got to think of it as ' something to eat' and not try to compare it to the actual meat burger itself, as they are two different things. That being said, being a vegetarian now is a whole lot different, as products are everywhere, much better looking and tasting . Also much more main stream. I never get in to a heated battle because its just not worth it. All I ask is leave the old tofu sprout raw vegetable vegetarian image at home, because its just not like that anymore ( except for those health freaks, and honestly, they can keep it). Just because im a vegetarian, doesnt mean i dont like the smell of a barbecue, or that i miss a pizza with pepperoni, sausages and meatballs on top. I can honestly say I dont miss chicken or steak at all. My closing note will be, I think if people treated a vegetarian diet as just another cuisine, just as Thai, Chinese, Indian.... it would be more accepted, than treating it as a diet for ethical health freaks ( sure we have our share of these too, im not saying we dont). I think those that are open minded and treat it like this, are the ones who enjoy it and see our point of view. One more thing, I have been to Vyapti's site and tried many of his recipes. All vegan, and most very good with a wide variety of tastes. You should all give it a shot.
larry
Claire
Master Chef
I haven't checked into this line for quite awhile. One point I would like to make is that no matter what you eat, you can find something bad about it, if you look hard enough. I have many friends who only buy "organic" or "natural" products. Nice, if you actually know what you are buying. The same vegetables cost twice what the regular ones cost. But a couple of places I lived had scandals in that the "organic" farmers were using the same pesticides and fertilizers as the suppposedly non-organic farmers. So it was a bit discouraging, and I haven't paid more since then (it happened two different places I lived). The fact is, I cannot visit every farm and check up on them, so I have to just go on what looks good. I just think that every time you eliminate an entire food group from your diet, then replace it with a pill, you have to seriously think about the nutrition issues, not to mention the flavor issues. It turns cooking into a science and math project, and ruins it for me. AND, I might add, if I didn't buy food from far away, I would not get to eat any "fresh" vegetables except in late summer/early fall. I'm not willing to do that. I like a salad in December. So I try to ignore what I hear about various meats being awful, vegetables have to be locally grown and in season (meaning no vegetables at all from October through May?). If you paid attention to every single horror story about every single food product, we'd live on distilled water and vitamin tablets.
babetoo
Chef Extraordinaire
right on, claire
Treklady
Cook
I am a vegetarian and have been coming up on 2 years in September 2010. I am on my way to being vegan and seriously considering going raw. But I am unsure just how raw I want to go.
I have never felt better.
-I don't measure my food (for eating that is)
-I don't count calories
-I don't portion/weigh my food
-I don't worry about what time I eat
-I don't worry about how much I eat
-Carbs are not an issue (for I only eat complex carbs and those are GREAT for you)
-I do not miss meat in any way shape or form, because I have so much to take its place that the 3 vegetariens in the house no longer miss the stuff
-I don't have health issues and my doctor has never seen lower cholesterol(sp?) in her years of practice and I didn't even try
So vegetarianism for us is the norm.
I have never felt better.
-I don't measure my food (for eating that is)
-I don't count calories
-I don't portion/weigh my food
-I don't worry about what time I eat
-I don't worry about how much I eat
-Carbs are not an issue (for I only eat complex carbs and those are GREAT for you)
-I do not miss meat in any way shape or form, because I have so much to take its place that the 3 vegetariens in the house no longer miss the stuff
-I don't have health issues and my doctor has never seen lower cholesterol(sp?) in her years of practice and I didn't even try
So vegetarianism for us is the norm.
this has gone from a great discussion, onto holier-than-thou lecture on the of theroes of meat & on the millions of us that should be going vegan/veggie. enough is enough for me. i like meats & shall continue cooking/dining on them, that is me, i respect your opinion, & i would be grateful if my viewpoints were respected, too. the rude comments being general & nonspecific, although reeking of that holier-than attitude, well.....
i love tofu, veggies, tempeh, soy items, although i ingest animal foods. & i shall continue shamelessly.
um, also, my dear buddy, vegetarian for decades, hercholesterol is incrediously high. sans intake of cholesterol-containing food-items.
i love tofu, veggies, tempeh, soy items, although i ingest animal foods. & i shall continue shamelessly.
um, also, my dear buddy, vegetarian for decades, hercholesterol is incrediously high. sans intake of cholesterol-containing food-items.
Moderator hat on - again:
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Here is the original question posed on this thread:
As the resident vegetarian moderator I appreciate this thread and hope that it can continue in a thoughtful and collegial way. Please respect your fellow DiscussCooking members online just as you would if you were a guest at their table. While you are our guest we ask that you adhere to our Community Rules and post in a courteous way.If you find that you have particular trouble with this topic consider using the ignore tool to give you an assist. Place the topic on your ignore list and you will not have to be tempted to respond. You can also place specific posters on the same ignore list.
You can ignore this thread by clicking on thread tools at the top of the thread and then selecting "ignore thread".
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Here is the original question posed on this thread:
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