Factory Farms

[auntdot]

Agree with many, particularly Michael.

Although we both grew up in NYC and were city rats, we now live in the country.

Remember going to a market in the city where they slaughtered the animal in front of you, for us chickens or a goose, but they would also do lambs.

So we have no illusions about how what we eat got there.

Today we purchased some Angus sirloin steaks for $2.99 a pound (I know Angus is a breed and not a grade, but purchased them unwrapped in the butcher's case, and they are purrty good). Am glad for the bargain.

Was the exit of that animal pretty? Heck no.

But I am willing to accept that.

And I can fully understand why others may not want to.

We often eat meals without meat. Not by intent, but because the recipes we choose do not include a meat ingredient.

Have no issues with vegetarians or vegans, to each, God bless, his/her own.

It is just that I know many are trying to take away our right to eat meat.

And that rankles me.

But I have been rankled before and everyone on this forum is great.

So will just shut up.

God bless.

 

[Michael in FtW]

I have moved this to the " Miscellaneous" forum - think it fits in better there.

No Constance - I don't have a problem with this ... I just didn't know which direction you were headed with it. But, I will keep an eye on it to make sure it doesn't get out of hand!

 

[DinaFine]

Of course, we all understand that animals have to be slaughtered in order to provide us with food. It isnt always pretty for sure, but I do feel that food suppliers should be aware of the impact on the enviroment of the way that animals are slaughtered. I am in favor of local, sustainable agriculture that preserves the earth and its bounty for future generations. I am hoping that more people will be aware that their choices in the market affect what will be available to them, and that by not purchasing food out of season that has to be shipped far, thereby using valuable fuel resources; by purchasing organic that does not dump poisons into the groundwater; by patronizing stores and restaurants that encourage sustainable farming techniques they will be making the world healthier for themselves and preserving the lives of their children and grandchildren.

 

[amber]

DinaFine, in an ideal world, we could all purchase organic foods if it were ever made affordable. As far as purchasing foods out of season, I simply need my fruits and veggies so I end up paying top dollar out of season. You must have a comfy income if you can afford organic foods. I do buy my foods in season from local farms, but off season, I still need my fruits and veggies so those are imported and at top dollar in the off season.

Why does organic food cost twice as much?

 

[Michael in FtW]

Does Chapter 13 ring any bells with you? By the way we call our small farms "living rooms"

Actually - it's Chapter 12 for the Family Farmer, Chapter 13 is for a Wage Earner.

 

[Zereh]

Encouraging people to make informed decisions about the food they put into their mouths is never a bad thing.

Simply put, there's a huge difference between the life of an animal raised "normally" and the life of an animal raised on a "factory farm". There are humane ways to raise and slaughter animals and then there is the gross, inhumane side of the industry that people tend to want to turn a blind eye towards all in the name of saving a buck or two at the grocery.

I'm not a meat eater (for about 10 years now). I was raised as one. I raised one. And am living with another. I certainly don't think that one way is better than the other, I just know what feels right for me. But I do know that every piece of meat that happens to have the luck to pass through my kitchen is one that I knowingly paid extra for to ensure that it was raised as organically possible. Which also means that it led a life of dignity (instead of one of squalor and dispair) and was killed with the same amount of respect.

In a perfect world, I wouldn't even have to look at meat. =P But since I haven't quite reached my nirvana, I do what I can when I can to make a difference. Thus my fridge is full of cage-free eggs, organic cow milk has a place next to the soy, "organic" beef even shows up so my guy can have his cow fix since I hit a butchershop with some fabulous meatcutters who know the farmers that raise the animals that are displayed their meat case.

Having a connection with your food means that you appreciate how it got there, how it was raised, how it was killed, what methods are used to get it to your table. Hopefully those connections will lead to making smarter food choices which in turn will lead to an end to factory farms.


Z

 

[bethzaring]

Of course, we all understand that animals have to be slaughtered in order to provide us with food. It isnt always pretty for sure, but I do feel that food suppliers should be aware of the impact on the enviroment of the way that animals are slaughtered. I am in favor of local, sustainable agriculture that preserves the earth and its bounty for future generations. I am hoping that more people will be aware that their choices in the market affect what will be available to them, and that by not purchasing food out of season that has to be shipped far, thereby using valuable fuel resources; by purchasing organic that does not dump poisons into the groundwater; by patronizing stores and restaurants that encourage sustainable farming techniques they will be making the world healthier for themselves and preserving the lives of their children and grandchildren.

I agree 100%, could not have said it any better.

 

[lulu]

Me too. As for budget, we eat less meat. I do not always buy organic veg because of money (although wish we could afford to) but we are very careful with meat purchases, and our budget survives our choices. For example, tonight we are eating chicken, but its actually the only meat meal we are having btwn Mon and Friday this week, so it was ok that I spent more on organic, free range chicken.

 

[Nicholas Mosher]

Remember, many organic products often have an even larger impact on the environment than "inorganic" products.

There is no doubt that a vegetarian society would place less impact on the world's resources, but so would using your hands instead of toilet paper... It's disheartening, but the world is skyrocketing in population which will eventually hit a wall where the world says "enough is enough" and begins to give up.

One thing that definetly can help is restricting the types and volumes of waste "producers" can emit back into the environment, and actually enforcing vertebrae-crushing fines on those who wave a hand at them. Most advanced treatment plants do exactly as mother nature does, but in a controlled-accelerated process. Make people accountable for the damage they do.

 

[DinaFine]

Actually, I dont think organic products impact the environment in a more negative way than conventional. I do think that you probably are not helping things when you buy organic from Mexico or China because of the added fuel cost to ship it over. Also the items wont have near as much flavor as things grown more local. If I have a choice, I start with as local if possible, preferring organic if possible. There are by the way a lot of choices in the vegetable department that one can make in the winter without having to to turn to imported peaches and melons. Start with squash, leafy greens are always available, carrots, potatoes, beets, oranges the list is pretty long actually if you think about it.

I'm not wealthy by a long shot, but I do try to make choices that I think will benefit us all in the long run, also I have found that the added cost of organic is balanced by my having reduced greatly the amount of processed food that I used to purchase.

I really dont want anyone to think I am trying to beat them over the head with this. I just feel that sometimes the things we wish to ignore can sneak up on us a bite us in the butt. So, a little more awareness of how the stuff gets from farm to grocery store shelf couldnt hurt.

Dont mean to sound preachy.

 

[Aria]

All your comments have made good reading. Dina Fine, We want to know
all we can about our food. We are sure of the fresh eggs we buy from our neighbor and the veggies we can grow.

We try to cook and bake from scratch, and use the ingredients we recognize as good for us. And we buy unbleached Bread Flour for the bread I make. And eat from the long list GB gave on "good things to eat" . Plus.

 

[Nicholas Mosher]

Normon Borlaug made some interesting points in The Economist...

"..the idea that organic farming is better for the environment is “ridiculous” because organic farming produces lower yields and therefore requires more land under cultivation to produce the same amount of food. Thanks to synthetic fertilisers, Mr Borlaug points out, global cereal production tripled between 1950 and 2000, but the amount of land used increased by only 10%. Using traditional techniques such as crop rotation, compost and manure to supply the soil with nitrogen and other minerals would have required a tripling of the area under cultivation. The more intensively you farm, Mr Borlaug contends, the more room you have left for rainforest."

I do agree on buying local when possible though. But with population growth the way it is, bioengineering is going to be essential if people are to stay fed 'round the world. When it comes to grains I definetly support the large and efficent farms we have now. Veggies I prefer fresh from local farmers/gardens for their quality, and meats are come and go. Sometimes I like larger brands and sometimes I prefer local (if available).

 

[bethzaring]

If you are interested in reading a balanced, thoughtful discussion on any food/hunger related issue, let me recommend anything written by Frances Moore Lappe, she certainly has done her homework.

Frances Moore Lappé is the author or coauthor of fifteen books. Her 1971 three-million-copy bestseller, Diet for a Small Planet, continues to awaken readers to the human-made causes of hunger and the power of our everyday choices to create the world we want.

Small Planet Institute

She has been a long time heroine of mine.

 

[DinaFine]

You can find a quote to fit every side of an argument: Try this one:

"Advocates of modern agriculture reliant on pesticides and widespread single crop plantings (known as “monoculture”) have bragged for decades about the increased productivity their high-tech methods can yield. Indeed, several studies in the U.S., Britain and Australia have shown that such methods produce as much as 40 percent more than the more benign methods that served mankind well for thousands of years.
As a result, seed growers and pesticide makers are now working in poor countries to promote the same “green revolution” there, capable, they say, of growing enough food to feed the desperately hungry.
Research Confirms Organic Farming Produces Higher Yields
But a spate of new research has shown that organic farming actually yields better results than modern techniques when evaluated more holistically. A series of peer-reviewed papers published by the international journal, Nature, showed that organic methods for growing rice, corn and wheat all produced significantly higher yields—and at less the cost—than monoculture farms. And research at England’s Essex University has shown that farmers in India, Kenya, Brazil, Guatemala and Honduras have doubled or tripled their yields by switching to organic agriculture. Cuban farmers, who cannot access fertilizers and pesticides due to the U.S. embargo, have also realized greater yields by taking up organic farming.
Organic Farming Improves Soil Fertility and Prevents Erosion
According to Dr. Christos Vasilikiotis of the University of California, Berkeley, a vocal advocate of organic farming, chemically intensive farming is highly undesirable due to the toll it takes on the land and the pollution it generates. “Organic…farming methods continually increase soil fertility and prevent loss of topsoil to erosion, while conventional methods have the opposite effect,” he says. He further maintains that “only a conversion to organic farming will allow us to maintain and even increase current crop yields.”
Organic Methods More Cost-Effective for Farmers
Dr. Liz Stockdale of Britain’s Institute of Arable Crops Research agrees, and points out that even when organic yields are less than conventional ones, organic farmers make up the financial difference by not having to buy costly pesticides and fertilizers. She adds that improved growing techniques and new natural pest controls could eventually level the playing field, giving organic farmers the economic advantage.
The Number of Organic Farms is Increasing
According to the trade group, Organic Consumers Association, only slightly more than two percent of all farms in the U.S. are currently organic. But with sales of domestic organic food growing about 20 percent annually, the organization expects that figure to rise exponentially in years to come.
Still, though, feeding the world is a tall order, and everyone from organic farmers to environmental leaders to human rights workers agrees that ending hunger is dependent more upon political will than agricultural prowess. “Until governments tackle the social and political factors involved in poverty and food distribution, millions of people will continue to go hungry,” concludes Stockdale."

I read diet for a small planet years ago. Havnt methods of vegetarian cooking become more sophisticated since then?
Bethzaring: I love your tag line. Lets hope that there comes to be enough of us out there that can change this world for the better before it is too late. Already, we are hearing more and more about such things as slow food and sustainable agriculture. We all have to do our part.

 

[Nicholas Mosher]

There are definetly arguments for both sides, that was the point of my posting the above comment. But botanists have been genetically modifying plants for a long time. We just have much more advanced tools nowadays that allow us to make modifications that would require thousands of plant generations (along with a bunch of luck!).

I think many farmers use a mix of the "new" and the "old". Crop rotation, both natural/synthetic fertilizers, and "genetically modified" seeds. You could argue it forever though. What about irrigation? It's certainly a modification of the soil. How about fertilizer? Many "natural" fertilizers are terrible for the surrounding environment such as manure which is loaded with fecal coliform bacteria. This ends up running off into our waterways sometimes. Why not use the elements we're after directly such as nitrogen and phosphorus?

And really, how long before something is considered naturalized? Look at the Galapagos with species being created and wiped out quite often. What does is matter whether the differentiation occurs by generations of natural selection, or scientist doing their own gene selections so that people can grow food rather than starve in areas where the "natural" crops would never survive?

Or how about the other end of the spectrum... our waste. Should we just naturally go wherever we feel the needs behind bushes and such? Or maybe irrigate the waste directly into receiving waters? Through the use of mechanical, chemical, and bio-engineered processes at work I reduce the "demand" of peoples waste on the environment to one that the receiving waters can accomodate. Likewise, I think similar technology is required on the other end to fill people's demand for sustenance in a world where we have 6 Billion+ people. As that population continues to skyrocket our reliance on technology is going to increase as well.

Just my opinion though.