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Old 09-13-2006, 06:36 PM   #11
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Mac and Cheese

Let it out and eat it cold. At 40 degrees or lower.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeraBlue
Sorry Barb, you've got to toss it. I don't know what's more dangerous in there, the proteins or the cooked starch.

Once something is cooked it has to be held at 140 degrees. It can be held there for quite some time, although I don't know who'd want to eat anything held for all that time...
However, once your casserole was left on the counter, the temperature began to drop below 140. At that point, it could only safely stay below 140 for 2 hours. Once you hit the two hour mark it would either have to be reaheated to 165 or quickly chilled.

You mention you had quite a bit left...(that really is a shame, it sounds expensive). In the future, when you have a lot of something thick and heavy like that, you've got to break it down into smaller pieces in order to cool it quickly enough. Cooling quickly is just as important as holding at the proper temperature.

My kids have left stuff out before. I am sure you'd agree it is better to toss it than risk getting sick for the price of cheese. Did you ever go into the kitchen in the morning to discover someone left the refrigerator door open?
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Old 09-13-2006, 06:58 PM   #12
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I wouldn't have any problem with it. The only thing in there that could get raunchy in that short time would be the milk, and it's been cooked and soaked up.
I understand about being careful, but you've gotta use a little common sense, too. It's not like you live in the tropics.

Don't feed it to the grandbaby, though. Little ones haven't had time to build up any resistance, and being small, are more susceptable.

I probably shouldn't have taught my two 4 yr old grandsons to like raw oysters, but luckily everything turned out OK. They got a lot of applause at the restaurant, and had a real good time.
But they're both almost 18 now, and neither one has ever gotten any hair on his chest, which is what I promised the oysters would do.
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Old 09-13-2006, 07:02 PM   #13
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Wink

O.K. all you've confinced me-- Iam tossing it- no biggy ! Thanks !
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Old 09-13-2006, 07:15 PM   #14
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i guess being a chef, i don't take any chances...even if it is fine, i have had experiences and will never risk the dangers......i went to culinary school and learned about bacteria and other microrganisms and see them in a different way than some people do, they can do serious damage. At my restaurant, sanitation and saftey is #1. If i get someone sick, it would not be good at all.
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Old 09-13-2006, 07:18 PM   #15
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I promise--it won't kill you.
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Old 09-13-2006, 07:44 PM   #16
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DON'T! i'm nationally certified w/ servsafe. bacterial growth will give you a stomachache. better safe than spending a few days vomiting.
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Old 09-13-2006, 07:48 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Constance
I wouldn't have any problem with it. The only thing in there that could get raunchy in that short time would be the milk, and it's been cooked and soaked up.
I understand about being careful, but you've gotta use a little common sense, too. It's not like you live in the tropics.

Don't feed it to the grandbaby, though. Little ones haven't had time to build up any resistance, and being small, are more susceptable.

I probably shouldn't have taught my two 4 yr old grandsons to like raw oysters, but luckily everything turned out OK. They got a lot of applause at the restaurant, and had a real good time.
But they're both almost 18 now, and neither one has ever gotten any hair on his chest, which is what I promised the oysters would do.
Constance, the milk is not the most dangerous thing in that casserole. It's the proteins and the cooked starches. It doesn't matter if it was left out in a room that was a hundred degrees or 70 degrees.
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Old 09-13-2006, 07:56 PM   #18
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It seems luvs and I, and probably a few others who are certified in food safety and sanitation have very strong opinions. This isn't snobbery, please understand that. We say what we say because we are concerned about people's health. We also happen to have the facts, which is more than common sense here.

The course study we are certified from is http://www.nraef.org/servsafe/

Holders of this certification are recognized by the local and state board of health and the CDC in Atlanta.

Sometimes common sense isn't enough. Sometimes, a person educated in a specific field has the right of way.

Shigellosis is the name of the foodborne illness that can be contracted by bacteria in salads that contain pasta, milk and other dairy products. Symptoms are diarrhea (may be bloody), abdominal pain, fever, nausea, cramps, vomiting, chills, fatigue and dehydration.

Staphylococcal Gastronenteritis is the name of the foodborne illnes that can be contracted by bacteria in reheated or improperly hot held foods that contain meat, poultry, egg products, dairy products. Symptoms include vomiting/retching, nausea, diarrhea, abdominal cramps. In severe cases, headache, muscle cramping, changes in blood pressure and pulse rate.

Bacillus Cereus Gastroenteritis is the name of the foodborne illness that is caused by bacteria in rice products, starchy food (pasta, potatoes and cheese products) food mixtures such as sauces, puddings, soups, casseroles and pastries. Symptoms are vomiting and nausea, sometimes abdominal cramps or diarrhea.
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Old 09-13-2006, 08:29 PM   #19
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I do want to clarify one matter. I know that a pro chef or food service director has been trained in sanitation and food safety/handling. As a private chef/caterer, I would never serve such to my clients/guests. Nor would I to house guests. I certainly know food safety/handling, state and federal regulations, etc. But in the home is a little different...fewer people, different kind of control etc. The food is exposed to the bacteria which the people are already exposed to. There is some natural "immunity". No I would not eat it cold. Yes I would make sure it got good and hot, and yes I do use a thermometer.

I've been to Central America where often the cheeses and custards sit out all day. I've not gotten ill. Drinking the water will make you ill though.
I've been to Spain and Italy where food sits out at room temperature on the bars all day. Never gotten ill. My local butcher has pizza sitting out on his counter all day..."you wanna slice tomato pie?" Never gotten ill.

Now, the sushi's been sitting out all day?...I'll pass, thanks. The pate has been sitting out all day? I'll pass. The oysters 's aren't on ice? I'll pass.

I know we debate this a lot, and I know there is a difference between what my mom would do (and she was a doctor too) and Chef Jimmy and VeraBlue would do. I suppose on a public board like this I should err on their side and agree, don't risk it, toss it. Make a new batch. I yield.
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Old 09-13-2006, 08:30 PM   #20
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Here's a thought. NOT a criticism of anyone, or anything - just a thought.
Those of us who live in "3rd world" countries, eat a lot of stuff which might not be considered "safe" in other countries. I regularly eat raw oysters on the beach, plus "Dynamite Shrimp" - cooked shrimp plastered in gin, vinegar, hot pepper, cilantro, you name it....paraded around the beach all day long in plastic cups.
How about the traditional "arepa" ( corn bread) stuffed with mixed seafood... on the highway to the east, at 11 am..

Well, you might say, this fella is courting death and destruction.
After 25 years of courting, I'm left on the side. I'm sure I've eaten some really nasty "crap" in my past, but I've never got ill. And my theory is that the human body builds up "resistance" - rather like an athlete builds resistance when running 10 miles per day.

What am I trying to get across? That a little bit of dirt probably won't do you any harm, from time to time. Don't think about eating it all the time; although beggars and paupers and street people and abandoned kids do so all the time over here.A chastizing thought.

When you take a close look some of the processed grunge eaten in "Developed Countries" ( CheezWhiz, Devilled Ham, ready-made Mac'n'Cheese, SPAM, Wieners, etc. ) and you think what actually goes in to those "Food Items"...it sort of makes you think , doesn't it? Sanitised grunge, or Sun-dried Shrimp??? Mac'n'Cheese, or a slice of fresh tuna chopped from the fish as it is dragged from the sea??

And another thought, too.Every single American (read US) citizen who has ever been here in my house wants to eat chicken. No seafood, no steak, no lamb, no goat, no pork, no quail - CHICKEN. And the last one to try got Chicken in coconut milk with Green Mango and Banana, spicy, vaguely Indian. Only problem was - he was born in Madras!

Again - thoughts, people. Perhaps I think too much!!
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