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Old 05-20-2007, 07:46 AM   #11
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By the way, the whole wheat flour was from King Aurthur.

I thought I heard if the dough is too dry, you can add a little water to it once you've started kneading it. I thought the warm water was just for the yeast mixture. No? Ya, I don't remember if the water was warm or cold coming out of the sink.
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Old 05-20-2007, 08:47 AM   #12
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legend. you can and should add water (cold or warm) to dough in the mixer if it's too dry. The warm water is just for blooming the yeast initially.

When I suggested adding more AP flour, it was not t increase the total amount of dough so much as to change the ratio of WW to AP. I would shoot for a 60% WW 40% AP in the mix.
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Old 05-20-2007, 08:50 AM   #13
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I agree with there being way too much whole wheat flour to the all purpose flour. The ratio I use is - well, here's my recipe for pizza dough -


* Exported from MasterCook *
PIZZA DOUGH

1 cup +3 Tablespoon water
2 tsps olive oil
2 3/4 cups bread flour -- (13.5 oz)
1/4 cup whole wheat flour -- (1.1 oz.)
1 tsp each: garlic & onion powders
1/4 cup dry milk powder -- (.7 oz.)
2 tsps sugar
1 1/2 tsps salt
2 tsps Active dry yeast

Using a Bread Machine: Fill bread machine in the order that your model recommends.
Set machine to 'dough'; take out at end of process & spread on a Pam-sprayed pizza pan which has been sprinkle with corn meal.

Making dough by hand: In a large bowl, mix together the dry ingredients except the yeast; after mixing, add the yeast and combine.

Combine the dry ingredients with the liquids; mix together and turn out on a floured board and knead for 5 minutes. Cover with a towel and let rise for 30 minutes.

The dough is now ready.
This amount of dough will make one large pizza, two medium, or four to five individual pizzas.
For individual pizzas - divide dough into quarters.
Either freeze, refrigerate till needed, or top immediately with toppings of your choice.
If frozen, let the dough thaw in a oiled plastic bag in the refrigerator overnight.

Oven: Once you have your toppings on the dough, bake at 450° for ~15 min., or till crust is golden.

Grill: Medium to medium high heat - grill for 4 min.; remove from grill and turn grilled side up - you'll want the uncooked side down
Top with toppings; place back on grill for 6 min. more, with the lid closed, rotating if necessary.
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Old 05-20-2007, 09:17 AM   #14
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I would disagree with Andy M. I would add warm water, I use the mix of 200ml cold water to 175ml just off boiling water when I make bread dough. The mix has to stay warm as you want the yeast to keep working generating the carbon dioxide which causes the dough to rise and make the dough light. If you add cold water to the mix, you are going to drop the temperature of the yeast's environment and slow them down, so the dough will take longer to double.

When I make pizza dough (rarely admiitley), I make a straight bread dough
1 1/2 lb strong flour
2 tsp salt
2 tsp yeast (I use dried yeast that you add straight in and it starts when wet)
3 tbs oil
375ml warm water.

I leave it to rise on the stove top with tghe oven on to give some warmth. This takes 3/4hr to 1hr to double.

I would knock this back and shape to form the base(s), add the tomato sauce, toppings and cheese and bake.

Next time I may add the herbs like you did.

Hope this helps.
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Old 05-20-2007, 09:43 AM   #15
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some pictures of my yeasts

ok, this is odd. Look at these pictures. First one is after 15 minutes and to my surprise the 2nd picture is after a good 25 minutes or so. Could it take that long for the yeast to foam? Is the 2nd picture good? If so...wonder why it took so long and is that not a good sign. You know what I mean?

If it is, I should make some dough with it. It's still just sitting there, not sure if it's ok to just let it sit. I don't even have my bowl of flour ready.
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Old 05-20-2007, 10:21 AM   #16
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It looks like both pictures show active blooming yeast that is good to go.

A number of factors can effect how fast yeast blooms: The temperature of the water, the amount of sugar/honey, the freshness of the yeast and the addition of other stuff such as salt - salt can kill yeast.

Time is not the most important factor. When you see a good head of foam, you can add flour and proceed. When doing the first rise, you know you are ready when the dough doubles in size. The times these events require are not as important as the events occurring - the foaming of the yeast or the doubling of the dough.

Adding cold water to a too dry dough will do no harm. It's a relatively small amount, typically a tablespoon or two, and will not effect the large mass of dough. At worst, if you added a large quantity of cold water, it might slow down the rise to double in size.

Keep trying, you don't often acheive perfection on the first try. Keep track of the details of your attempts so you will be able to recreate your success when you are done.
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Old 05-20-2007, 11:39 AM   #17
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picture of it rising after an hour

I should of taking a picture when I first put it in the bowl. It was flat so it is rising. See picture. This is a good hour later. I have just seen it rise a lot quicker and a lot higher in the past. But than again, this is my first time working with whole wheat flour. I'm going to let it continue to rise.
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Old 05-20-2007, 11:56 AM   #18
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Whole wheat flour will naturally result in a denser dough that rises less. This is why a mixture of WW and AP is recommended. The WW flour particles prevent gluten from forming lots of bubbles that will puff up and cause the dough to rise as much.
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Old 05-20-2007, 12:01 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy M.
Whole wheat flour will naturally result in a denser dough that rises less. This is why a mixture of WW and AP is recommended. The WW flour particles prevent gluten from forming lots of bubbles that will puff up and cause the dough to rise as much.
I was just reading about this somewhere else. Will it make any difference if I let it rise longer like 2 hours or so instead of 1 hour. Or will that not make any difference?

I did a different ration this time actually especially since the last time I had to add water due to it being so dry. and I did add a LOT of water "lol". Almost 1/4 of a cup at once.

My ratio I used this time was 2 cups of whole wheat flour and .5 cups of all purpose flour. INSTEAD of 2.5 cups of whole wheat flour and .5 cups of all purpose flour.

I will eventually punch it down and put it in the freezer since I'm not actually making pizza today.
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Old 05-20-2007, 12:04 PM   #20
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Here's a link to a site that is very helpful. The linked page discusses the qualities of different flours. Scroll down to about half way through the page and read what it says about whole wheat flour. It wxplains why a 50/50 combination of AP and WW is desireable.

I don't think you will ever get a WW dough to rise like an AP flour dough.
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