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Old 10-22-2014, 03:02 PM   #11
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I'd really like to know what sources you used to decide what you believe.
You know, thats a damn good question. I cannot pinpoint any particular source of knowledge that inspires me or teaches me anything.
I guess most of my reasoning and beliefs come from experience with a particular subject.
And if I have little experience with a subject, I guess I would agree that an informed source is the best bet. Like my doctor for example.
I don't always correlate government with knowledge or even common sense.
Maybe my parents? Teachers? People I admire?
I guess those would be my main sources of information and where many of my beliefs come from.

I do my best to not listen or read national news either. I watch my local news at 5:00 pm and ignore any other news until the next day a 5:00.
Places like this also seem to have good resources and nice people. So you could say DC is a source of knowledge and that knowledge put into use becomes a belief.
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Old 10-22-2014, 03:58 PM   #12
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Over the years, so many of the "Truths" about healthful eating have been overturned that I now ignore them all. I know to eat reasonable amounts of minimally processed foods on a regular basis.
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Old 10-22-2014, 04:20 PM   #13
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I don't always correlate government with knowledge or even common sense.
...
I do my best to not listen or read national news either. I watch my local news at 5:00 pm and ignore any other news until the next day a 5:00.
Places like this also seem to have good resources and nice people. So you could say DC is a source of knowledge and that knowledge put into use becomes a belief.
"Government" isn't one big monolithic thing. Most of the people who work in government have nothing to do with elections or policies; they just do their jobs, year after year, like other people do their jobs. That includes teachers and scientists and air traffic controllers and police and firefighters and park rangers and on and on.

Funny that you avoid national news and watch local news. I mostly stopped watching local news 15 or so years ago because it's nothing but death and destruction, shootings and fires and crime. I will watch the weather report and that's about it.

However, I often watch the Today show in the morning and NBC Nightly News in the evening. Cable news is way too frantic for my liking. I only watch it if something major happens, like the shooting in Ottawa today. When I was on the board of the local League of Women Voters, reading a daily newspaper was one of the expectations of board members - so we would be informed on current events.

Nice people don't necessarily have the knowledge they seem to Just because someone believes something strongly doesn't make it true.
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Old 10-22-2014, 04:24 PM   #14
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Just because someone believes something strongly doesn't make it true.
But, but...I clapped real hard and loud while watching Peter Pan...
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Old 10-22-2014, 04:30 PM   #15
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But, but...I clapped real hard and loud while watching Peter Pan...
I'm so sorry, Wendy ... I mean Princess Fiona.
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Old 10-22-2014, 07:51 PM   #16
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Believing something strongly CAN (potentially) make it come true/manifest ...it's in the area of creative manifestation/cosmic ordering i.e. in the realm of spirituality. Many have used it successfully to bring about their desires.
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Old 10-22-2014, 11:58 PM   #17
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well said, creative.
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Old 10-23-2014, 08:37 AM   #18
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Believing something strongly CAN (potentially) make it come true/manifest ...it's in the area of creative manifestation/cosmic ordering i.e. in the realm of spirituality. Many have used it successfully to bring about their desires.
If you're assigning a fancy name to describing and working toward what you want out of life, then fine. However, no matter how much you want it, belief alone will not cure cancer or any other serious disease. Believing strongly in it will not make homeopathy work and it won't make acupuncture cure anything. People who have type 1 diabetes or cystic fibrosis or infertility are not going to overcome them by wishing for it. And of course, the corollary of that idea is that people are responsible for whatever bad things happen to them - they didn't believe strongly enough in a positive outcome.

It's called magical thinking for a reason: http://skepdic.com/magicalthinking.html

That site is full of interesting reading.

http://skepdic.com/tijunk.html
http://skepdic.com/tilogic.html
http://skepdic.com/newthought.html
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Old 10-23-2014, 08:54 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by GotGarlic View Post
If you're assigning a fancy name to describing and working toward what you want out of life, then fine. However, no matter how much you want it, belief alone will not cure cancer or any other serious disease. Believing strongly in it will not make homeopathy work and it won't make acupuncture cure anything. People who have type 1 diabetes or cystic fibrosis or infertility are not going to overcome them by wishing for it. And of course, the corollary of that idea is that people are responsible for whatever bad things happen to them - they didn't believe strongly enough in a positive outcome.

It's called magical thinking for a reason: magical thinking - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com

That site is full of interesting reading.

junk science and pseudoscience - topical index - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com
logic and perception - topical index -The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com
New Thought (aka Mind Cure or Mind Science) movement - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com
No it's not a fancy name for working towards something. Clearly you are not familiar with this procedure. I did use the word CAN (and in capital letters)....of course it's not a cure all but, as mentioned, many people have successfully used "the secret" to manifest their desires. The book "The Secret" by Rhonda Byrne was a bestseller and...not for nothing! It is not some new fangled, hippy trippy idea either but has its roots going way back and employs the law of attraction which is a universal law.

Rather than being quick to diss it, I suggest you would do well to look into the many successful accounts of those that have benefited from this process. It is real and empowering.

Not all manifestation exercises are fruitful and this may be due to a number of reasons, e.g. if people ask for what they don't want, that is a negativity and is not "received". Also we may get what we want rather than what we need.

I take your point about the blame thing re. if bad things happen to us then it is our fault. Whilst I believe in causality (actions having consequences), this is a new age thinking that may be taking it a tad too far. I have a genetic lung condition and was asked why would I wish to be born with that?!

Sorry, I realise that this is vastly off topic now...perhaps I should have PM'd you on it but thought others might want to read about this issue too.
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Old 10-23-2014, 09:12 AM   #20
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Diet books have been huge best-sellers for decades, yet Americans get heavier and heavier. The desire of people to improve themselves doesn't prove that any particular method works.

From http://skepdic.com/lawofattraction.html

Quote:
law of attraction

"The Secret" is like Amway for the soul.

"Therefore I say unto you, what things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them." Mark xi. 24.

The law of attraction is a New (Dark) Age belief that one's mental disposition attracts similar external circumstances and events. In other words, your mental intentions and attitudes draw people and things of like intention and attitude to yourself. On one level this is trivially true. We generally hang out with people who think like us and share our values and we avoid people who disagree with us on important matters and don't share our values. But a moment's reflection should reveal that this "law" is false; it's not even truthy.

Sellers don't attract sellers; they attract buyers, unless they're running an MLM scheme. Lazy dreamers don't attract lazy dreamers. They attract con artists with big smiles and lots of promises. Grieving vulnerable people don't attract vulnerable people; they attract vultures and vampires who take advantage of their grief. If you say that grief and greed are both negative so this example supports the law of attraction, then this law is impossible to test. It's too slippery to have any meaningful content if obvious contradictions to it are said to support it. When kindness begets not more kindness but resentment, a New (Dark) Age defender of this "law" can always claim that the kindness wasn't genuine.

One of the main purveyors of this belief is Gary "Dancing Wu Li Masters" Zukav. According to Zukav:

Each personality draws to itself personalities with consciousness of like frequency or like weakness. The frequency of anger attracts the frequency of anger, the frequency of greed attracts greed, and so on. This is the law of attraction. Negativity attracts negativity, just as love attracts love. Therefore, the world of an angry person is filled with angry people, the world of a greedy person is filled with greedy people, and a loving person lives in a world of loving people.*

The so-called law of attraction is the kind of law that many people will find attractive. It provides them with the illusion of having control over their lives. All I need to do is change my attitude and intentions and I'll attract money like a magnet (or lose weight or whatever else it is I want to achieve). If it doesn't work, it's my fault because I didn't genuinely change my attitude and intentions. Sound familiar? What is it that the faith healers say about those who don't get healed? You didn't have enough faith!
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