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Old 01-22-2009, 10:42 PM   #1
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Non-Dutch processed cocoa == won't dissolve into liquids?

So I went to make a chocolate Genoise tonight, after a week and a half of pate a choux. My last Genoise was plain, and it worked out well. I figured hey, I got the hang of it, so off I go to my chocolate Genoise.


One catch, I am not using Dutch processed cocoa, aka, Alkalized cocoa. I sifted it with the flour, and when I went to fold it into the eggs, it just would not incorporate. It stuck to the eggs/sugar no matter how much I tried. And try I did, and when finally done, there was no volume left at all in my batter.
So it became clear to me, something about this cocoa does not want to dissolve into the eggs/sugar.



I looked it up on some other sites that suggested Dutch cocoa may dissolve better. Any truth to this? I am at a loss at this point.

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Old 01-22-2009, 11:16 PM   #2
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I don't think so because there is a recipe for hot cocoa on the non-Dutched Hersheys' cocoa box.

Did you use a specific chocolate genoise recipe or just substitute some cocoa for the flour?
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Old 01-22-2009, 11:19 PM   #3
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See, e.g.
Chocolate Genoise Cake with Raspberry Filling and Chocolate Ganache Recipe : Emeril Lagasse : Food Network
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Old 01-23-2009, 12:31 AM   #4
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See, e.g.
Thanks but that recipe is a disgrace. It uses baking soda?!?! Genoise is supposed to succeed on the tripled volume of the eggs and sugar. Emeril is probably betting that most of his fans won't have the chops to pull it off.

Judging by the complexity he was right. But I am not giving up.
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Old 01-23-2009, 12:32 AM   #5
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I don't think so because there is a recipe for hot cocoa on the non-Dutched Hersheys' cocoa box.

Did you use a specific chocolate genoise recipe or just substitute some cocoa for the flour?
Well hot cocoa is one thing, it's water you're mixing it with. But whipped eggs and sugar, that is something entirely different. I have confirmed in some other sources that its true, non Dutch is less soluble.
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Old 01-23-2009, 05:20 AM   #6
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My experience is that the non-Dutch process is more like chocolate and therefor requires a hot liquid to 'dissolve'.
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Old 01-23-2009, 11:53 AM   #7
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Thanks but that recipe is a disgrace. It uses baking soda?!?! Genoise is supposed to succeed on the tripled volume of the eggs and sugar. Emeril is probably betting that most of his fans won't have the chops to pull it off.

Judging by the complexity he was right. But I am not giving up.
I suggested it because you were having such a difficult time making a traditional genoise and I wanted you to have a success so you would not be discouraged from baking.
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Old 01-23-2009, 07:37 PM   #8
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I suggested it because you were having such a difficult time making a traditional genoise and I wanted you to have a success so you would not be discouraged from baking.
I appreciate the help. I just meant that I am going for the real deal. My ego can handle it, and besides, it wouldn't be much of an accomplishment if I cheated like that.
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Old 01-23-2009, 07:58 PM   #9
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Based on Nick Malgieri's Chocolate Genoise

mryummy, you have not shared any of yourself here (including gender--I don't assume anything online) and you are a newbie. If you want a good traditional chocolate genoise recipe it is not hard to find. May I suggest that you look for cookbooks by well-known teachers and pastry chefs. Nick Malgieri fills the bill. I love Maida Heatter's cookbooks as well. Further, I just bought Shirley O' Corriher's BakeWise and she explains the baking formulae as does Rose Levy Beranbaum in her Cake Bible and her Chocolate book.

I still don't know if it is the technique that you care more about or the cake itself. Further, if you are new to baking, I still think that it is best to build your skills. Often easier recipes help build ones confidence and teaches skills that help later on.

Chocolate Genoise
Based on Nick Malgieri's recipe from Chocolate From Simple Cookies to Extravagant Showstoppers

For a 9 or 10-inch round (by 2-inches)

Ingredients:
1/2 cup cake flour
1/3 cup cornstarch
1/4 cup Dutch process cocoa powder
3 large eggs plus 3 large egg yolks
3/4 cup sugar
pinch of salt

Directions:
Preheat your oven to 350 degrees and make sure the rack is in the middle of the oven. Prepare the pan by buttering and lining with parchment and buttering the parchment.

Sift together the first three ingredients and set aside.

Whisk together the next three ingredients in the bowl of an electric mixer. Place the bowl over a simmering pan of water and continue whisking for a minute or two. (The water should be about 100 degrees)

Whip the batter with the electric mixer at high speed until the batter is cooled and has increased in volume. This should take about 3-4 minutes.

With a spatula gently fold in the sifted dry ingredients in three additions.

Bake the cake for about half an hour or until it is risen and the center is firm to touch.
Loosen and remove from pan. Cool right side up.
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Old 01-24-2009, 12:41 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by mryummy View Post
So I went to make a chocolate Genoise tonight, after a week and a half of pate a choux. My last Genoise was plain, and it worked out well. I figured hey, I got the hang of it, so off I go to my chocolate Genoise.


One catch, I am not using Dutch processed cocoa, aka, Alkalized cocoa. I sifted it with the flour, and when I went to fold it into the eggs, it just would not incorporate. It stuck to the eggs/sugar no matter how much I tried. And try I did, and when finally done, there was no volume left at all in my batter.
So it became clear to me, something about this cocoa does not want to dissolve into the eggs/sugar.



I looked it up on some other sites that suggested Dutch cocoa may dissolve better. Any truth to this? I am at a loss at this point.
MrYummy

Why not try the Larousse recipe I posted in your other thread about Genoise? This adds the cocoa powder to the eggs and sugar, which will remove entirely you problem about the non-incorporation with the flour, as this mix is then whisked over a bain-marie.

Standard, base-acidic cocoa powder does need both heat and moisture to incorporate perfectly into a cake batter, especially one such as a genoise, which is why most recipies tell you to dissolve your cocoa powder into an equal quantity of hot water prior to adding to the batter.

Perhaps re-read the first thread that you started on Genoise to see if there is anything else there that may be of assistance?
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