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Old 06-16-2017, 01:27 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by CraigC View Post
You are not understanding me right. I am asking if you consider tracking a wounded animal until it drops, whether still alive or not, as humane? Bow hunting almost always results in having to track the animal down. Dropping the animal on site is very rare in bow hunting. How do you compare that being humane to a quick shot to the head in a controlled environment. I agree that cutting the throat insures a slow, painful death and disdain that cruelty as inhumane.

I hate trophy hunters, but understand the necessity of managing wildlife and the money from these types of hunts goes to help insure species survival.
In all honesty, it is very hard for me to say that any method is perfectly humane, or as humane as I would want it to be. However, if I am going to kill an animal, I will try my very best to ensure that it is done in the quickest and most painless way possible. In addition, I personally consider the life of the animal p
rior to being killed as a part of whether or not the hunt was humane. What I mean by this is that if you kill a wild animal exactly the same way as an animal in a slaughterhouse, the wild animal was killed more humanely because it got to live its life in the wild.

I really do not like having to track animals, but you are right that bow hunting almost always results in tracking. In fact, a DRT shot with a bow usually means that you hit the spine. I consider the animal running 100 yards or less to be humane as far as bow hunting goes. I am very pleased when I can get an animal down in 50 yards. With my current bow setup and if I can get a shot on the animal when it is not spooked, this usually happens.

If I could make it so that the animals died instantly and also it did not waste a ton of meat, then I would do it. I have a friend who shoots an insane magnum rifle that puts down deer like nothing I have ever seen. Always DRT like they were hit with the hammer of thor. However, it destroys an excessive amount of meat so I do not consider it necessarily ethical for my hunting purposes because wasting all of the meat defeats the point of hunting.

In my opinion, no matter how controlled or efficient the slaughterhouse process is, it is not humane. Even in the best slaughterhouse operations, the animals are robbed of their dignity by being killed in a captive environment, not knowing what it is like to be free. Unfortunately, these best slaughterhouses where all of the animals die instantly and without stress are mostly a fantasy. The reality is that most slaughterhouses are incredibly cruel and stressful for the animals. If I had the choice of living free in the wild and then one day getting shot running a few yards and then bleeding out or living my life in captivity, being abused and then forced into a slaughterhouse where I painfully died, I can tell you which option I would choose. I do not like killing animals but if I am going to do it and eat meat, then I will try to give the animal the most respect and dignity in the most humane death that I can give them.

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Originally Posted by GotGarlic View Post
Saul, calling yourself a vegan is quite unethical in my opinion, especially since it's just for your convenience. It's perverse.
I am sorry if my use of the term vegan to describe myself offends you. I joke with my friends that I am 98% vegan.

If you are a vegan and find the thought of a person hunting and calling themselves a vegan to really be perverse and unethical, then I apologize. I hope you understand that I mean no offense by the term. I just mean to explain that I find the farm and slaughterhouse industry to be inhumane and I choose to not take part in it.

I used to be a big game hunter and I also hunted many African trophy animals. Then, I became a full vegan and gave up hunting entirely. Recently, I have decided to begin hunting again, but only break from veganism to eat meat of animals that I have killed myself. I am considering raising my own chickens and possibly working with a local organic farm to get milk and cheese, although I have not yet made that transition away from veganism.

I am vegan (or at least 98% vegan not because I consider the actual consumption of animal products to be wrong (I used to hold this view) but because I consider the way in which we get these animal products to be wrong. This difference in view explains my somewhat loose use of the vegan label. Sorry again if that offends you.
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Old 06-16-2017, 01:43 AM   #12
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If it ain't no skin off my nose, a guy can call his self whatever he wants.

Edit:
Was going to leave it there but reminded me of a TV show, four seasons, I recently watched on Netflix. Called "Life Below Zero" from the BBC about a few people living in various parts of the Alaskan wilderness. Most were more or less subsistence hunters and gatherers but not exclusively so and they weren't ideologues, they just preferred that lifestyle. Would have appealed to me when I was a lot younger. Anyway, I recommend it to someone interested in a life dedicated to the ideas Saul is talking about.
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Old 06-16-2017, 03:02 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Saul View Post
I am sorry if my use of the term vegan to describe myself offends you. I joke with my friends that I am 98% vegan.

If you are a vegan and find the thought of a person hunting and calling themselves a vegan to really be perverse and unethical, then I apologize. I hope you understand that I mean no offense by the term. I just mean to explain that I find the farm and slaughterhouse industry to be inhumane and I choose to not take part in it.
I'm not offended, exactly, and I'm not vegan. I'm a writer and editor. Words have meaning and the purpose of language is to communicate with each other. By definition, vegans don't use or consume animal products, so the idea of a vegan hunter who eats the catch is an oxymoron and in my opinion, a perversion of the language.
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Old 06-16-2017, 03:21 AM   #14
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.. I'm a writer and editor. Words have meaning and the purpose of language is to communicate with each other. ...


"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore." James Davis Nicoll
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Old 06-16-2017, 07:10 AM   #15
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I think it would be interesting to see the reaction if Saul posted his self-named lifestyle and philosophy on a vegan or even vegetarian forum...
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Old 06-16-2017, 07:16 AM   #16
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"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore." James Davis Nicoll
There is no way, other than deliberately, for someone to misunderstand or misuse the term vegan.
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Old 06-16-2017, 07:17 AM   #17
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I don't care what people eat or call themselves. Just don't eat me and we're good.
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Old 06-16-2017, 09:15 AM   #18
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There is no way, other than deliberately, for someone to misunderstand or misuse the term vegan.
+1. Evolution of language is one thing. Deliberate misuse is different.
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Old 06-16-2017, 09:41 AM   #19
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Saul, calling yourself a vegan is quite unethical in my opinion, especially since it's just for your convenience. It's perverse.
I question the propriety of your language. Seems to me you are just calling a new forum member names. I guess to make yourself look smarter?
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Old 06-16-2017, 09:56 AM   #20
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I question the propriety of your language. Seems to me you are just calling a new forum member names. I guess to make yourself look smarter?
I'm expressing my opinion. Trying to shame me for it is wrong. I'm pretty sure he chose that phrase to be provocative.

If you don't like what I say, complain to the mods.
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