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Old 09-25-2008, 02:59 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SShepherd View Post
Yikes......maybe I walked through the wrong door
Nah,
You didn't get the wrong door.
I've learned quite a bit from this thread.
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Old 09-25-2008, 03:18 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by JohnL View Post
Nah,
You didn't get the wrong door.
I've learned quite a bit from this thread.
You have?

No matter how many times I read Chicko's posts, I don't comprehend. I really give it the good 'ol college try even.
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Old 09-25-2008, 03:42 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Andy M. View Post
There is absolutely nothing wrong with knife aficionados talking shop in the knife forum. Have at it.

I was responding to Chico's comment that he found it odd members didn't go out and buy Japanese knives. I was trying to explain differing perspectives in support of my explanation.

I have been reading threads/posts about knives here at DC for years so I feel I have a pretty good idea what many members want. Various members here use everything from Cutco to Global and Japanese knives and everything in between. Some send their knives out for professional sharpening, some use the electric sharpener on the back of their can opener and others use various equipment to sharpen their own knives.

The point I was making was that it's not appropriate to apply a professional tinker's standards to judge the average foodie's wants and needs in the cutlery department.

As the interest in food and cooking grows, the demand for better equipment goes along with it. How far that goes is open to discussion.
All I can say, is japanese knives are harder and more "delicate" , they require a different technique than western knives. There's also the entire sharpening issues that are pretty important to follow with a few of the specialized japanese knives, or they will be ruined

Since I do all the cooking in the house (and being a knifemaker) I have a number of different knives in the kitchen, the most expencive being an almost $300 german chefs knife. The #1 thing I can't stand is a knife I have to constantly sharpen Every time I use it ( yes, I've accused my wife of intentionally dulling them-thats was a bad scene btw)
Maybe I should just simply ask, how much is too much ?--which is an entirely personal question. I know a professional chef who can burn through a $800 japanese knife every year because he likes a "perfect" edge everyday. On the other side if that, I know alot of foodies that buy knives that progressivly get more expencive untill they find what works best for them, or they may be satisfied with a slightly sharpened bar of steel resembeling a knife.
I deal alot with this same issue with hunters. A $1200 shotgun, $500 in clothing, a $1000 "hunt'in " dog.....and a $5 knife that all they do is complain about...and throw it in the lake just to buy another $5 knife--because all they do is throw it in the lake
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Old 09-25-2008, 03:54 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Jeekinz View Post
You have?

No matter how many times I read Chicko's posts, I don't comprehend. I really give it the good 'ol college try even.
Yeah Jeeks, I have.
Chico seems very passionate about knives and as (I believe Andy said) this is a knife section of the forum, so basically have at it. If owning the best tool is important to you and you can afford it, then by all means go for it. Personally I have neither the knife skills nor the cash to justify owning a high dollar knife, but I can certainly appreciate the effort, engineering and quality of the materials used to create one. That being said, I do just fine with my Chicago Cuttlery 8" chefs knife and diamond stone to keep it sharp enough for my kitchen use.
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Old 09-25-2008, 05:03 PM   #35
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To JohnL and SShepard, it's not just a passion for knives, but a passion for craftsmanship. I think you might stunned to see what I open UPS boxes with. Go google "Graham Brothers Knives." They make the finest "box cutters."

As for Japanese knives being "delicate, I'm not sure that's the word I would use. It would be "refined." The reason European style knives take abuse is that they pretty much designed to be everything to everyone. I've seen blocks of knives all sharpened at the same angle--the the paring knives to the cleavers.

For the remedy, I buy laminated knives, or as they sometimes known, "hammered and folded," or "folded and welded." If I like a knife, I'll buy clad. (Truth be told, I didn't keep them long, however.)

The difference might seem superfluous. The folded knife would be made like stretching and then folding taffy. The clad knife would be a simple stacking of thin sheets of steel, mostly of diverse alloys. Yes, there is a debate and it's a matter of free choice.

My philosophy is, "The past is my future." If a cutler and polisher of feudal Japan did it for the samurai, then there was a good reason. The samurai were the ruling class, the fractal trades were a thin water-mark above peasant. When you gave a katana to a samurai, it was your best work.

It is my goal, and I do not print this lightly, to be the best western born V-grind tinker in the USA.
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Old 09-25-2008, 09:16 PM   #36
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Chico, I've been making custom knives for over 10 years now....I know what craftsmanship isWhen rerering to "delicate', it was compared to western style knives...yes they are delicate. japanese knives tend to be alot more specialized than their western counterparts.

BTW, samurai were not the ruleing class. Samurai means "to serve"or "servant" of the fuedal lords. The imperial nobility were above all.
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Old 09-25-2008, 09:19 PM   #37
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SShepard, I'd like to see pictures of your knives if some are available.

As to samurai, I meant only to show a heirarchy. And it's very dramatic. I have been viewing some vignettes of an interview with a polisher from Japan. During the interview he states that polishing isn't even a recognized craft. All of that beauty...
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Old 09-25-2008, 09:25 PM   #38
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For the remedy, I buy laminated knives, or as they sometimes known, "hammered and folded," or "folded and welded." If I like a knife, I'll buy clad. (Truth be told, I didn't keep them long, however.)

The difference might seem superfluous. The folded knife would be made like stretching and then folding taffy. The clad knife would be a simple stacking of thin sheets of steel, mostly of diverse alloys. Yes, there is a debate and it's a matter of free choice.


I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at.
Cladding is as simple as you stated...hard steel in the center, softer steel on the outside--no folding ,simply stacked and forge welded

A multi layer,folded and forge welded (often referred to as damascus or pattern welded) is just how you explained it. Neither term is properly interchangeabe
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Old 09-25-2008, 10:44 PM   #39
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Yes, I know. But I'm not sure your average consumer knows. They just see the striations on the side of the blade. In fact, when I first saw the patterns I thought one was as good as another.

Yes, I am picky, but I have had a problem. I took a clad kitchen knife right from the box for Q/C and saw that the bevel was crooked--to the naked eye.

I touched it up with a fine stone and paste, and lo and behold a small wisp of shiny laminate appeared near the tip. The knife was de-laminating from a light hand polishing. A rigorous buff with a cotton wheel would have certainly done some serious damage.

Mine is a small business. If folks cannot trust a product or a promise, I will certainly lose their business.
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Old 09-26-2008, 09:09 AM   #40
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more than likely, it what is called a "shunt"...where it wasn't forge welded properly. I'd send it back due to manuf. defect.
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