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Old 04-07-2008, 02:25 PM   #81
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Sorry it didn't work out, but thanks for sharing the experience! Now we know, and knowing is half the battle. GI Joe!
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Old 04-07-2008, 02:48 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by chef_william View Post
Anyway... back to topic lol

Ok...... i have seen the light. These knives are shall we say... not very good - as you may have already guessed!

A first they seem great - they were undoubtably very very sharp, but since further use i am not impressed.
That's a shame- it sucks to find something you really like only to have it let you down in the long run.


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My 2 knives now seem to have lost their edge, despit being only a couple of months old... i take excellent care of my knives - honing them after every work out, so its not my lack of care resulting in this!
Don't completely write 'em off. It's a good chance to see how well you can sharpen them. If they can be sharpened again to a keen edge they'll still be useful. It's probably not realistic to expect any knife to keep a razor edge after two months of use. Honing that frequently can be very hard on an edge, especially if you use a grooved steel. And it's probably best to steel before use since the steel will "rebound" to some degree as it sits there.
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Old 04-07-2008, 08:00 PM   #83
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As always, the man of fewer words sums it up perfectly! I'm all for buying American, but it's increasingly rare that I can find an American product of high enough quality to satisfy my needs. Try to buy a CD player made in the US (with no Asian parts, that is)- and good luck, because we can't/don't make any. At all. My preamp is Mexican (), my speakers are British, my DVD & CD players are Japanese, my HT processor is British...I think my main amp is actually made in the US, but I won't swear to it.

When it comes to knives, IME Japanese knives have next to no peers, certainly none made in America. Henckles has some very advanced knives- that are manufactured in Japan and branded for them. Aside from that, I can only think of Mora as a maker of good laminates from Europe. And that's the key: laminated knives are generally superior IMOHO. Short of making an entire knife out of V-Gold 10 or Cowry-X, laminating a very hard hagane with a softer jigane, san mai style, seems the best way to go.
There are fine artisan knife makers in the U.S. They don't mass-produce knives and because many do their own forging, they often command a premium price. To say that we can't/don't produce goods as well as the Japanese is foolishness. The problem that we have in America (and I'm referering specifically to the good ole U.S.A) is that we have allowed our civilization to become so engrossed in the bottom line that true craftsmanship is just not profitable. It's not the talent that's lacking, but the societal infra-structure that promotes and encourages such talent.

For instance, when I worked for General Dynamics Corporation, before I could accept my job, I had to sign a document stating that any product creation, invention, or improvement that I produce, whether in my home, garage, or at work belonged to General Dynamics Corporation. In other words, if I built a better mouse trap, even though G.D. didn't make mouse traps, the product and any patent for that product belonged to them.

I have read numerous factual stories of individuals who created something of worth, just to have it taken away by deep-pocket companies who could challenge any patent, and tie up the original creator with enough law suits that the creator just ran out of resources to defent him/herself. Then, the big business grabbed the product, and the patent rights, and made millions from it.

In such a land, where individual creativity is gobbled up by capitolist greed, is it any wonder that we no longer are the nation of innovators that we could be?

Profit and growth are good. But simple greed, and the desire by some to rasie up their own power and finances, at the expense of others is one of the prime evils in this modern world.

Where innovation and creativity are valued, individuals excell. Where hard work is rewarded by theft, and even punishment, that personal excellence that we are capable of is repressed. That is why we no longer lead the world in production, innovation, and creativity. We have the ability, but our will has been taken from us.

Seeeeeya; Goodweed of the North
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Old 04-08-2008, 12:52 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by Goodweed of the North View Post
There are fine artisan knife makers in the U.S. They don't mass-produce knives and because many do their own forging, they often command a premium price. To say that we can't/don't produce goods as well as the Japanese is foolishness. The problem that we have in America (and I'm referering specifically to the good ole U.S.A) is that we have allowed our civilization to become so engrossed in the bottom line that true craftsmanship is just not profitable. It's not the talent that's lacking, but the societal infra-structure that promotes and encourages such talent.
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I agree; in fact, I own some of them! But the tiny output of all custom makers is a drop in the bucket, a tiny fraction of the industry. And unfortunately, few of them are heavily involved in kitchen cutlery. A notable exception, of course, is Murray Carter...I think he's working in the US now, although he's a Canuck by birth.

Does it really matter if we "can't" or we "don't"? Ultimately it's the same thing. Sure, there are some gifted craftsmen in the US, but I can't think of a single mass produced kitchen knife made in the USA that can compare with a Hattori or a Shun.

Man, I wish Bark River made kitchen knives!
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Old 04-10-2008, 05:47 PM   #85
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I agree; in fact, I own some of them! But the tiny output of all custom makers is a drop in the bucket, a tiny fraction of the industry. And unfortunately, few of them are heavily involved in kitchen cutlery. A notable exception, of course, is Murray Carter...I think he's working in the US now, although he's a Canuck by birth.

Does it really matter if we "can't" or we "don't"? Ultimately it's the same thing. Sure, there are some gifted craftsmen in the US, but I can't think of a single mass produced kitchen knife made in the USA that can compare with a Hattori or a Shun.

Man, I wish Bark River made kitchen knives!
I agree with yuo that it's a shame that we don't have a high-quality, mass-produced American made knife. I was jsut airing a pet pieve about our society, that too often, what we can do is stymied by the very people who should be encouraging us to do excellent work. Pure business greed is a thing that can stifle a country.

I'm going to hijack this thread for but a few words so as to list an example. A year or two ago, big business dairy tried to push through legislation to halt the production of artisan cheeses made with unpasturised milk. Science proved that whole milk is just as wholesome for cheese making as the critters that produce the cheese inhibit the growth of nasty organizms by proudcing acidic compounds in the product. The sole reason for this push by the big cheese makers, was in my opinion to supress compitition of artisan, high quality cheeses that were cutting into their market. I don't believe the food companies won this battle. But it does show how greed can supress excellence, whether it is in knife making, greeting card design, or even ceramic materials used to clean up oil spills (other potential industries that were ruined for the product creator by big business greed).

In such a society, how can we be a nation of innovators?

Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North
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Old 04-10-2008, 06:13 PM   #86
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I agree with yuo that it's a shame that we don't have a high-quality, mass-produced American made knife.
Bravo, standing ovation! I am 100% with you. We have the ability. Why can't Chicago Cutlery and others see the light? I guess it goes back to Chad Ward's "the sad truth about kitchen knives" FAQ. I swear that in less than a decade virtually all of the manufacturers will be making performance knives. Competition will make it so.
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Old 04-11-2008, 12:23 AM   #87
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Does Chicago Cutlery still make knives in America? The only ones I noticed lately were made in China.
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Old 04-11-2008, 06:25 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post
...We have the ability. Why can't Chicago Cutlery and others see the light?...

Chad had the answer:

"...The knives found in most commercial and home kitchens are designed for the lowest common denominator. The manufacturers of these knives make a series of compromises calculated to keep the largest number of people happily using their knives for the longest period of time."...

They make the knives that has the largest market. Larger market=more money.
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Old 04-11-2008, 07:34 AM   #89
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Does Chicago Cutlery still make knives in America? The only ones I noticed lately were made in China.
They proabably are. The only CC I have is a 30 year old block set. Among the knives is a Chinese cleaver and it's made of a different steel than the others. I suspect that at that time the cleaver was made in Japan as it has Kanji. I also think my knives are forged.

CC opened their doors in 1930 in the US. but I guess it's Chinese manufactured now.

Andy - Chad Ward is correct of course but I contend that all the major manufacturers will wake up to the fact that there is more of a marketplace than just the average masses...

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Old 04-11-2008, 07:42 AM   #90
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...Andy - Chad Ward is correct of course but I contend that all the major manufacturers will wake up to the fact that there is more of a marketplace than just the average masses...

Buzz

The question is whether or not there is enough of a profit to be made in a specialty market to make the investment worthwhile.
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