Eating based on the food pyramid vs Mediterranean

[GotGarlic]

It's not surprising that there were people who managed to avoid disease, infection and accidents and lived long lives before 1900, especially isolated nomadic populations. But this is about life expectancy of the group, not the longevity of individuals. Before modern medicine was developed, people frequently died from cuts (infections), broken bones and childbirth.

 

[GotGarlic]

"Were those ancestors of yours in Italy still hunter gatherers? I think that dragn was talking about a lot longer ago."



My ancestors were mountain living, hunter gatherers, scavengers.

How far back can you trace your family tree?

 

[JonasStax]

Life expectancy of the human population when cities implement sanitation and disease control and people live healthy lifestyles is 80 plus years. My Italian ancestors as a group live to an average age of 80 to 85 years.

If people examine the cloistered village environment of medieval Europe, the localities were disease spreaders. The current state of the COVID virus is a prime example. Isolated people are safe, close environment the disease is rampant.

 

[GotGarlic]

Life expectancy of the human population when cities implement sanitation and disease control and people live healthy lifestyles is 80 plus years. My Italian ancestors as a group live to an average age of 80 to 85 years.

And are you including ancestors before, say, 1850? When do you think cities implemented sanitation and disease control? Which cities?

Life expectancy of the human population before 1900 was more like 40. Modern life expectancy is around 70-75 depending on which country you're talking about. Life span is a different thing.

If people examine the cloistered village environment of medieval Europe , the localities were disease spreaders. The current state of the COVID virus is a prime example. Isolated people are safe, close environment the disease is rampant.

That's Public Health 101. People die from a lot more than just infectious disease.

Looking at the bolded phrases and your other comments, you seem to be only thinking about the European experience. The world is a lot bigger than that.

 

[taxlady]

It's not surprising that there were people who managed to avoid disease, infection and accidents and lived long lives before 1900, especially isolated nomadic populations. But this is about life expectancy of the group, not the longevity of individuals. Before modern medicine was developed, people frequently died from cuts (infections), broken bones and childbirth.

I agree.

I was thinking about how much it varied and that life expectancy and longevity are not the same thing. I can see that I really didn't make that clear.

I sometimes overreact on subjects of historical longevity and life expectancy. I'm so tired of people who tell me that Arctic people didn't live past 40 before white people brought them modern medicine.

 

[blissful]

Hello all again. You might have heard or remember the food pyramid they would teach about in grade school, there is a Wikipedia article on it. I would prefer the latest updated version of that if its healthier then the Mediterranean and no meat at all as I have seen on the nets that no meat with food is actually healthier, espeashally not having red meat as red meat can cause unhealthy problems in the body. I don't know if any of that is true however I would rather play it safe than sorry by not eating red meat or any meat for now until I know for sure.

I thought about switching to eating healthy using the food pyramid or based on the food pyramid rather then the Mediterranean food red bean and barley recipe I eat every day that I have discussed in my previous threads. If not, maybe I can modify what I already eat to make it better or healthier.

I saw a nutritionist sort of recently and she helped me and gave me some advice to improve it or make it healthier. I already started to change it up a bit this year with adding more beans rather then just the dark red kidney beans, more fruit that is usually different types of grapes rather then bananas.

so having said all that, Is eating the food pyramid way healthier? espeashally not eating any meat or is eating the Mediterranean way healthier?

You asked about meat. You can also search on this page for meat, fish, poultry, processed meat. It's about nutrition. There are many short videos provided, and below the videos tabs, with medical studies cited.
https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/meat/

 

[JonasStax]

"Looking at the bolded phrases and your other comments, you seem to be only thinking about the European experience. The world is a lot bigger than that."

The topic is about the Mediterranean Diet.

"And are you including ancestors before, say, 1850? When do you think cities implemented sanitation and disease control? Which cities?''

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calabria

My ancestors live in Calabria.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/...ncient-people-live-life-span-versus-longevity

Do we really live longer than our ancestors?

On the record

The data gets better later in human history once governments begin to keep careful records of births, marriages and deaths – at first, particularly of nobles.

From 1200 to 1745, 21-year-olds would reach an average age of anywhere between 62 and 70 years

Those records show that child mortality remained high. But if a man got to the age of 21 and didn’t die by accident, violence or poison, he could be expected to live almost as long as men today: from 1200 to 1745, 21-year-olds would reach an average age of anywhere between 62 and 70 years – except for the 14th Century, when the bubonic plague cut life expectancy to a paltry 45.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancel_Keys
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_diet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Countries_Study
https://www.truehealthinitiative.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/SCS-White-Paper.THI_.8-1-17.pdf
https://theconversation.com/how-the-mediterranean-diet-became-no-1-and-why-thats-a-problem-131771

The Seven Countries Study is an epidemiological longitudinal study directed by Ancel Keys at what is today the University of Minnesota Laboratory of Physiological Hygiene & Exercise Science (LPHES). Begun in 1956 with a yearly grant of US$200,000 from the U.S. Public Health Service, the study was first published in 1978 and then followed up on its subjects every five years thereafter.

The Seven Countries Study represents a lifestyle snapshot of the people living in the regions where Seven Countries Study was conducted.

The 2022 global food distribution network, health care and lifestyle is different from the original study.

The reality of life is anyone can write a book, without leaving their home, espousing the merits of the Mediterranean Diet.

The reality of life is Southern Italy is full of ghost towns because the younger generation move to the industrial north to find employment.

The reality of life is the heritage Italian cuisine is disappearing because the majority of Italian women don't have the time to stand around the stove slowing cook meals. Italian male offspring are refusing to leave home because modern Italian single women are no longer interested in taking care of "Peter Pan Personalities".

The reality of life is globally, the supply of heritage fruit and vegetables are being replaced by hybrids suitable for green picking and refrigeration transport. Heritage fruit and vegetable seeds are available from seed banks if people want to grow them in their back yard. The scientific data says the hybrids are just as nutritious as the heritage varieties. From my experience with the local supply of hybrids, the hybrids are tasteless, requiring the use of condiments in the cooking process to add taste.

In an era where global governments are advocating building high rise building to house residents, people may be enjoying the benefits of the Mediterranean Diet. Where is the quality of life when people are densely housed in small apartments the size of a double garage?

 

[GotGarlic]

"Medieval Europe" isn't limited to the Mediterranean areas, so you expanded the topic.

Jonas, I don't know why you bother posting a dozen links in every post - yes, I'm exaggerating slightly for effect. I'm not going to read them all and I doubt anyone else is reading all of your links, either. We want to discuss cooking with human beings, not trade quotes from websites.

 

[taxlady]

"Medieval Europe" isn't limited to the Mediterranean areas, so you expanded the topic.

Jonas, I don't know why you bother posting a dozen links in every post - yes, I'm exaggerating slightly for effect. I'm not going to read them all and I doubt anyone else is reading all of your links, either. We want to discuss cooking with human beings, not trade quotes from websites.

There aren't even any quotes to go with those links. I have no interest in clicking random links without knowing why I should bother clicking or what sort of information I might get.

 

[GotGarlic]

There aren't even any quotes to go with those links. I have no interest in clicking random links without knowing why I should bother clicking or what sort of information I might get.

There are quotes - there are just no quote marks, so you can't tell the difference between what he wrote and what he's quoting.

 

[JonasStax]

"We want to discuss cooking with human beings, not trade quotes from websites"

"There aren't even any quotes to go with those links. I have no interest in clicking random links without knowing why I should bother clicking or what sort of information I might get"

There are quotes - there are just no quote marks, so you can't tell the difference between what he wrote and what he's quoting.

There is a summary of what the links contain.

I forgot to type end at the end of the links

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancel_Keys
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_diet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Countries_Study
https://www.truehealthinitiative.org...HI_.8-1-17.pdf

Summary of the above links.

The Seven Countries Study is an epidemiological longitudinal study directed by Ancel Keys at what is today the University of Minnesota Laboratory of Physiological Hygiene & Exercise Science (LPHES). Begun in 1956 with a yearly grant of US$200,000 from the U.S. Public Health Service, the study was first published in 1978 and then followed up on its subjects every five years thereafter. END.

Personal Observation.

The Seven Countries Study represents a lifestyle snapshot of the people living in the regions where Seven Countries Study was conducted. The original Seven Countries Study is no longer relevant because in 2022 people living in the regions where Seven Countries Study was conducted are no longer living the late 1950's lifestyle. END.

https://theconversation.com/how-the-...problem-131771

The above link refutes the claim medieval Europeans lived shortened lives. END.

Anyone can write a cookbook without leaving the comforts of home. The only part of a recipe which is subject to copyright is the description. Many food sites post the ingredients on their web page and a link to the full recipe on the copyright holder's web site.

If people want the genuine, comprehensive, European Culinary Experience, Microsoft Edge contains a language translator which will automatically translate European languages to English. Visit the web site, save the page and edit the page with the SeaMonkey web browser.

 

[HeyItsSara]

The Mediterranean diet is only healthy if you re from that region. It's not healthy for everyone.

 

[GotGarlic]

The Mediterranean diet is only healthy if you re from that region

I don't think that's true, either. There are few absolutes when it comes to how to eat.

 

[HeyItsSara]

I don't think that's true, either. There are few absolutes when it comes to how to eat.

This is what I've heard. The diet is for the people whose bodies are used to it. It makes sense that not everyone's body would benefit.

 

[summer57]

Most of my ancestors from the Hebridean Islands lived until their 90s, according to my genealogy records. Well, except for those who died in childbirth. Their diet was probably not what we'd call Mediterranean because of the lack of veg.
Lots of fish and shellfish, whatever they could scrape off the rocks or find in tide pools. Oats. Dairy cows were for milk not beef. Seaweed, kale & nettles for veg, and berries for fruit. Thinking about it, I suppose it is a form of Mediterranean.


My French ancestors (originally from Normanday & Brittany) also lived a long time. My great-great grandfather loved his garden and his hawk. I suspect lots of pork, butter, whatever the hawk caught and all that good stuff.


Coincidentally, I eat a lot of fish, and if I have meat, it's usually pork or chicken. Beef's ok but not my favourite.

 

[JonasStax]

summer57's post perfectly describes the Sicilian and Calabrian lifestyle.

https://www.slowfood.com/about-us/

Slow Food is a global, grassroots organization, founded in 1989 to prevent the disappearance of local food cultures and traditions, counteract the rise of fast life and combat people’s dwindling interest in the food they eat, where it comes from and how our food choices affect the world around us. END

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Mosley_(broadcaster)

Michael Mosley (born 22 March 1957) is a British television journalist, producer, presenter, and former doctor who has worked for the BBC since 1985. He is probably best known as a presenter of television programmes on biology and medicine and his regular appearances on The One Show. END

Planet Earth's lifestyle is never stagnant. It is a continuing evolution of amalgamating lifestyles as the shipping routes introduced new foods and ideas. The Venetian's dominance in the evolution of Northern Italian cuisine is well documented. Michael Mosley through his documentaries for the BBC raised the awareness in the UK of slowing the pace of living and healthy eating. Traditionally, the UK farm plots are small plots where the produce is sold within the surrounding communities.

When published in 1978, The Seven Countries Study was obsolete especially in Southern Italy because the majority of the baby boomers moved to the industrial north to seek employment. Yet it did not stop the entrepreneurial writers and book publishers from promoting the Mediterranean Diet.

Humans have an adaptable digestive system. Given time individuals will adapt to the available food in their locality. The fast food industry is a testament. Fast food has proliferated in Asian countries, as has Asian food in European countries.

USA has the most concentrated and diverse genetic population on the planet. PBS, TV Food Network, America's Test Kitchen, Southern Living Magazine, Eating Well Magazine, Eating Light Magazine, Canadian Living Magazine to mention a few have all contributed to healthy cuisine.

If people are determined to live a healthy lifestyle, people will find resources within their local communities.

As a first generation Australian born to Calabrian migrants, I healthy eat what is available. I maintain a 150,000 recipe database sorted into categories and sub-categories. I can cross reference recipes and compare the nutritional value for the same proportional meals. Eliminate the nasty manufactured trans fats, the majority of the recipes are within an acceptable nutritional value.

 

[GotGarlic]

This is what I've heard. The diet is for the people whose bodies are used to it. It makes sense that not everyone's body would benefit.

It might seem to make sense, but that's not how the digestive system works. Everyone's body breaks down food into basic chemicals and uses those as needed to make new cells for different purposes. It doesn't matter what people are used to eating. This page has more information with diagrams of the digestive organs and what they do. I have inflammatory bowl disease, so I'm intimately familiar with the process.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/digestive-system/sls-20076373

 

[GotGarlic]

When people talk about the Mediterranean Diet in the modern sense, this kind of thing is generally what they're talking about: https://www.olivetomato.com/med-diet-101/

The author of this blog is a Greek registered dietician, so her recommendations are based on published research and the Greek cuisine she is familiar with. If it's the kind of diet you want to follow, for whatever reason, it's a pretty good guide, imo.

 

[JonasStax]

"Everyone's body breaks down food into basic chemicals and uses those as needed to make new cells for different purposes." "I have inflammatory bowl disease, so I'm intimately familiar with the process"

I am in a similar situation due to my gall bladder removal 30 years age. I have been to medical specialists, had every blood test known, even looked down the gut and rear end. The part medical technology cannot examine is in the middle. The medical term is irritable bowl syndrome. A fancy term to state we known there is something wrong, we cannot identify the cause. Hence my recipe database I use as a diet reference.

If people are seeking the Italian culinary experience:

http://www.ciaoitalia.com

Ciao Italia is the USA's longest running cooking show.

The approximately 2000 recipes posted on the web site are the best examples of Italian cuisine outside of Italy.

If people are seeking a healthy scientific researched diet:

CSIRO:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSIRO

The CSIRO Total Wellbeing Diet:
https://www.csiro.au/en/research/health-medical/diets/csiro-total-wellbeing-diet-online

My experience is there is no diet to suit everyone. It is a matter of trial and error and finding food groups and recipes to suit. Humans evolved as carnivorous hunter gathers, farmers eating naturally evolving fruits and vegetables and selective animal husbandry. Industrialisation introduced broad acre farming, and hybrid breeding of fruits and vegetables suitable for green picking, cool room storage and transportation and shelf ripening. The end result is tasteless produce compared to heritage varieties, yet according to official nutritional calculators, the nutritional value is identical. The other issue is artificially manufactured fertilizers and pesticides claimed to be healthy. DDT was once claimed as the safest pesticide manufactured until the research data revealed otherwise. Glyphosate is now questionable as safe. Artificially manufactured fertilizers are absorbed by trees and crops. No-one know what effect it is having on the digestive system, hence irritable bowl syndrome. The fillers in pharmaceutical drugs are also suspect in irritable bowl syndrome.

 

[GotGarlic]

"Everyone's body breaks down food into basic chemicals and uses those as needed to make new cells for different purposes." "I have inflammatory bowl disease, so I'm intimately familiar with the process"



I am in a similar situation due to my gall bladder removal 30 years age. I have been to medical specialists, had every blood test known, even looked down the gut and rear end. The part medical technology cannot examine is in the middle. The medical term is irritable bowl syndrome. A fancy term to state we known there is something wrong, we cannot identify the cause. Hence my recipe database I use as a diet reference.

My doctor sends me for an MRI to examine the middle part.

My experience is there is no diet to suit everyone. It is a matter of trial and error and finding food groups and recipes to suit. Humans evolved as carnivorous hunter gathers, farmers eating naturally evolving fruits and vegetables and selective animal husbandry. Industrialisation introduced broad acre farming, and hybrid breeding of fruits and vegetables suitable for green picking, cool room storage and transportation and shelf ripening. The end result is tasteless produce compared to heritage varieties, yet according to official nutritional calculators, the nutritional value is identical. The other issue is artificially manufactured fertilizers and pesticides claimed to be healthy. DDT was once claimed as the safest pesticide manufactured until the research data revealed otherwise. Glyphosate is now questionable as safe. Artificially manufactured fertilizers are absorbed by trees and crops. No-one know what effect it is having on the digestive system, hence irritable bowl syndrome. The fillers in pharmaceutical drugs are also suspect in irritable bowl syndrome.

DDT is a persistent pesticide - it doesn't break down, which is why it caused so many problems. Glyphosate is not a persistent pesticide - it breaks down to inert ingredients in a few weeks. It's been very well studied - it was first approved in the 1970s and the patent expired in 2000. All pesticides are not the same. They need to be evaluated individually.

Just because someone questions something doesn't mean there's a problem with it. Some people are just out to confuse other people and make money by solving "problems" they themselves promote. You have to be very careful about what you choose to believe.