Vietnamese Restaurants

[JustJoel]

I dunno about others on DC, Joel, but as for myself, I just don't enjoy eating out that much anymore. As my cooking skills improve, the restaurants I'm willing to spend money at are fewer and fewer. Locally, I'm down to two! Otherwise, I'd rather take the same amount of $$ to the grocery store and buy quality ingredients for two or three nights of meals for the two of us - with leftovers, usually! And there are just so many times I can rave about the Irish pub's "Now Famous Irish Potato Pizza" and still make it sound new.

I haven’t been to a real restaurant, even on the level of Appleby’s, in I don’t know how long! When we did go out on occasion, it was usually to a restaurant that serves food I wouldn’t normally prepare at home, and there’s quite a few of those! Sushi is high on the list, as well as other Japanese food like nabeyaki and robatayaki. Odd about the nabeyaki, or “hot pot,” because it’s a favorite to prepare at home in most Japanese families.

I enjoy going out on special occasions, mostly birthdays, for exquisitely prepared and served haute cuisine. And if we’re in the mood for Chinese, we’ll, we don’t go out, but we do order in.

I don’t make fish and chips either, so we go to a pub not too far from here if we get the urge for it. McMullen’s has the best fish and chips I’ve had, and during happy hour you can get three lovely large pieces of perfectly battered and fried cod with chips, enough for Mark and me to split, for just $2.50!

 

[GotGarlic]

I’m surprised there’s no forum for restaurants, but I guess since this is mainly a cooking site, restaurant stuff belongs off topic...

There's a Road Food forum, though, so I think a forum for Eating Out Locally or something similar would be a fun addition. Joel, you can make a request in the Tech Support forum to add a new one.

Vietnamese cuisine is one of the most complex and subtle cuisines on the planet as I understand it; a mixture of Asian and European cuisines that rival the most complex French orItalian techniques. So why can America only come up with soup and sandwich restaurants? I would love to experience some true haute Vietnamese cuisine! (Preferably when someone else is picking up the tab!)

Just guessing but maybe because Asians have been discriminated against for a long time and Asian food hasn't been considered "high end" for the most part in the United States, the restaurants that offer it emphasize the most "comfort food" aspects - soup and sandwiches The Vietnamese and other Asian restaurants in my area offer much more than those items, like spring rolls, bun (noodle salad) and other salads.

 

[buckytom]

There are plenty of high end Asian restaurants around. To say it's due to discrimination is ridiculous.

 

[taxlady]

...

Just guessing but maybe because Asians have been discriminated against for a long time and Asian food hasn't been considered "high end" for the most part in the United States, the restaurants that offer it emphasize the most "comfort food" aspects - soup and sandwiches The Vietnamese and other Asian restaurants in my area offer much more than those items, like spring rolls, bun (noodle salad) and other salads.

There are plenty of high end Asian restaurants around. To say it's due to discrimination is ridiculous.

It seems plausible to me. Just because NYC has some high end Asian restos, doesn't mean that anti-Asian feelings might not be a factor elsewhere.

 

[buckytom]

Lol, I just may have been outside of the NY area once or twice. I know that sounds crazy to such worldly people as yourselves.

Are we really discussing socio-political reasons for why Joel can't find a restaurant that he wouldn't otherwise go out to anyway?

 

[GotGarlic]

There are plenty of high end Asian restaurants around. To say it's due to discrimination is ridiculous.

Maybe there are in and around New York.

The jokes about Asians eating cats prove the point. Irrational fear of MSG does as well.

If you're interested in the socio-political history of Chinese immigration to the United States, here's a quick look. I'm almost finished with a book that includes this history, which was mentioned here by tenspeed a month or so ago.

https://www.khanacademy.org/humanit...ants-and-mexican-americans-westward-expansion

 

[buckytom]

I just so happened to be talking to a good friend recently about how weird it is that there are Irish pubs in almost every country in the world. He's lived in about 25 or 30 or so different countries, and regularly travels to many more. (He's originally from Ireland, works in petroleum and mining industries)
I've heard this discussed by other well travelled Irish folks as well over the years.

He happened to mention that the only other nationality represented in so many places, actually more due to liquor bans in many Muslim countries, were the Chinese in that there are Chinese restaurants everywhere as well.

If anti-Asian discrimination were such a factor as you suggested, neither nationality would be doing such ubiquitous business.

As far as reading books and thinking you know something, a little learning can be a dangerous thing. Drink deep, or taste not from the Pierian spring.

Besides, I juat did a search of Vietnamese restaurants in Las Vegas, and while Joel is correct about there being a lot of places that serve Pho there, there are many with broader menus. You just have to look.

Again, the entire argument is odd as he says he rarely goes out to eat.

 

[GotGarlic]

I just so happened to be talking to a good friend recently about how weird it is that there are Irish pubs in almost every country in the world. He's lived in about 25 or 30 or so different countries, and regularly travels to many more. (He's originally from Ireland, works in petroleum and mining industries)
I've heard this discussed by other well travelled Irish folks as well over the years.

He happened to mention that the only other nationality represented in so many places, actually more due to liquor bans in many Muslim countries, were the Chinese in that there are Chinese restaurants everywhere as well.

If anti-Asian discrimination were such a factor as you suggested, neither nationality would be doing such ubiquitous business.

That's not a valid conclusion. It's pretty common for immigrants who face discrimination to be restricted to doing menial or domestic work, such as laundry and cooking workingmen's food. Things that were often considered "women's work. That's all that most of the Chinese immigrants were permitted to do when they came to California for the Gold Rush (did you read the link?).

As far as reading books and thinking you know something, a little learning can be a dangerous thing. Drink deep, or taste not from the Pierian spring.

Back atcha. I think a well-researched book by a Yale professor of history provides a deeper dive into the topic than the anecdotal experience of a friend of yours.

http://books.wwnorton.com/books/Author.aspx?id=4294992130

Besides, I juat did a search of Vietnamese restaurants in Las Vegas, and while Joel is correct about there being a lot of places that serve Pho there, there are many with broader menus. You just have to look.

My local Vietnamese restaurants serve more than pho, too, but they're not what I would call high-end.

Again, the entire argument is odd as he says he rarely goes out to eat.

So what? He started a discussion. That's what we do here

 

[taxlady]

Maybe there are in and around New York.

The jokes about Asians eating cats prove the point. Irrational fear of MSG does as well.

If you're interested in the socio-political history of Chinese immigration to the United States, here's a quick look. I'm almost finished with a book that includes this history, which was mentioned here by tenspeed a month or so ago.

https://www.khanacademy.org/humanit...ants-and-mexican-americans-westward-expansion

Thank you for that excellent link. And thank you for making well-nuanced points.

 

[buckytom]

You missed three critical points.

To quote Good Will Hunting: "If I asked you about art, you’d probably give me the skinny on every art book ever written. Michelangelo, you know a lot about him. Life’s work, political aspirations, him and the pope, sexual orientations, the whole works, right? But I’ll bet you can’t tell me what it smells like in the Sistine Chapel. You’ve never actually stood there and looked up at that beautiful ceiling."
So, thanks for minimizing my friend's actual life experience.

And, high end doesn't necessarily mean expensive or wonderful physical surroundings. Joel mentioned the subtlety and complexity of the cuisine. That, if done well, is high end in itself.

Finally, as far as discussing things goes, again, it's a ridiculous thing to say that the restaurants Joel didn't consider don't exist due to discrimination.

 

[medtran49]

Outside of large metropolitan areas and some wealthy resort areas, could it be a matter of economics? In my experience, in smaller towns and cities, Asian, especially Chinese, restaurants are seen as inexpensive places to eat. Even where we live, other than a few places on the beach/touristy or pretty affluent areas, you don't find many high-end Asian restaurants. Other than in areas where there is a large population living of that specific ethnicity, you didn't see Vietnamese or Korean restaurants hardly at all until the last 7 or 8 years or so. We just had a pho restaurant open up close to us. Haven't been in there yet, but I'd guess they are mid range casual from what can be seen through the windows. I think there just hasn't been a demand for the lesser known Asian cuisines until the foodie travel shows and cooking shows started highlighting them, thus, creating demand.

 

[buckytom]

I'm sure it has to do with economics rather than discrimination.

 

[Rocklobster]

I believe it is economics..most countries/ethnic populations, don't, or won't, spend as much money on restaurants, and food in general, as us North Americans do. And, they likely eat out more than we do. They eat less meat, don't tip as much, restaurants are less extravagant and expenive to build and maintain, usually mom and pop/family owned and operated. .so, all this makes eating out less expensive..why would you go to a restaurant and spend 100 bucks at a Franchise place when you could eat out 3 times for 33 bucks each time? I think that is the way they see things..I see it that way...lol


I think that is why you don't see many high end restaurants..too expensive/risky to run and their own demographic probably won't support it..

 

[GotGarlic]

So, thanks for minimizing my friend's actual life experience.

Sorry, bucky, but one person's experience through only that person's lens is not definitive. It's one data point, not a range of input.

 

[GotGarlic]

Thank you for that excellent link. And thank you for making well-nuanced points.

Thank you, taxy. I appreciate you saying that.

 

[GotGarlic]

Outside of large metropolitan areas and some wealthy resort areas, could it be a matter of economics? In my experience, in smaller towns and cities, Asian, especially Chinese, restaurants are seen as inexpensive places to eat.

Why do you think that's true of Asian cuisine rather than, say, French or Italian?

 

[buckytom]

Sorry, bucky, but one person's experience through only that person's lens is not definitive. It's one data point, not a range of input.

It's a heck of a lot better than an idiotic presumption based on a book you read. And you're still defending this position. It's ok.

 

[GotGarlic]

I'm sure it has to do with economics rather than discrimination.

It's a heck of a lot better than an idiotic presumption based on a book you read. And you're still defending this position. It's ok.

And you're positive you're right and angrily defending your position, to the point of insulting me. I'll bet you haven't even looked at the link I posted or the author information about the book. (btw, my thoughts are based on more than just one book - or just books - but I don't think it would be useful to provide a bibliography.)

You decided instantly that I was wrong and you were right, probably based on the clear hostility you feel towards me, and never even considered what I was actually saying. Ok then. Have a nice day [emoji2]

 

[Rascal]

Great range of views.

Russ

 

[buckytom]

And you're positive you're right and angrily defending your position, to the point of insulting me. I'll bet you haven't even looked at the link I posted or the author information about the book. (btw, my thoughts are based on more than just one book - or just books - but I don't think it would be useful to provide a bibliography.)

You decided instantly that I was wrong and you were right, probably based on the clear hostility you feel towards me, and never even considered what I was actually saying. Ok then. Have a nice day [emoji2]

Who's angry? Please don't try to put words or feelings in my mouth.

Nice straw man, though. Anything to not let it go, to have the last word.

It's ok to say it's probably wasn't a great idea.