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Old 05-02-2012, 08:59 PM   #11
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I agree with Greg and GLC. Scare tactics from a site with an agenda. It's crap like this that makes me think censorship isn't always bad.
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Old 05-02-2012, 09:03 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Gourmet Greg View Post



I presume you forgot the smiley!

I'm sure you know this but just for those who don't: Arsenic is an atomic element. The typical arsenic pesticide (I googled this) is arsenic trioxide, As2O3. Neither quite meet my criteria to be called 'organic.' You need a little carbon to turn that into an organic chemical, although presumably our food industry and FDA require a bit more than hydrocarbons to be labeled as organic.

So like I said I presume you were being humorous.
Not really, more ironic that humorous.

Source

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What is arsenic?Arsenic is present in the environment as a naturally occurring substance or as a result of contamination from human activity. It is found in water, air, food and soil in organic and inorganic forms.
There are two types of arsenic: organic and inorganic. The inorganic forms of arsenic are the harmful forms, while the organic forms of arsenic are essentially harmless.* Because both forms of arsenic have been found in soil and ground water, small amounts may be found in certain food and beverage products, including fruit juices and juice concentrates.
A few months ago I saw an interview with one of the researchers. It seemed his final take on this was "We need to do a lot more study before any conclusions can be formed".

That does not stop media with an agenda from leveraging it to their own ends.
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Old 05-02-2012, 09:25 PM   #13
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"We need to do a lot more study before any conclusions can be formed".
= "We need to get paid a lot more money for more worthless studies that don't come up with any conclusions we can stand behind." (IOW = weasel words.) I consider the money wasted if they can't formulate any conclusions they wouldn't stand behind.
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Old 05-02-2012, 09:47 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Aunt Bea View Post
I have pretty much given up on meat, poultry and fish.

When I do buy I try to shop local and as close to the source as possible.

The whole situation is very sad.

I hope CWS4322 can keep the girls off drugs when they move to the city.
Don't worry, Aunt Bea, the girls will still be "rural" enough that they won't hook up with the wrong crowd. I'm NOT driving them inner-city. They'll have to walk!
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Old 05-02-2012, 09:49 PM   #15
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Even a lot more study is no assurance of a confident conclusion. Individual studies rarely produce anything upon which to base a confident decision. The goal of scientific study is to direct the scientific community toward the next study.

In medicine, the studies that tend to produce some kind of reasonable basis for at least a tentative way to make decisions are metastudies in which no new study data is generated, but the results of many studies become the subject of the metastudy. That's because few studies can be broad enough to be practically meaningful. If they were that broad, their data would be highly suspect, because there would be too many variables and no possibility of a control group.

This study essentially says:

Subject to further studies reproducing these results, there is evidence to suggest that certain identified substances were present in the environment of the chickens that grew the feathers for some unknown period, at some unknown concentration, and in some unknown means of exposure.

While it is indeed necessary to confirm that situation, some similar result could be predicted with high confidence, given what is known about what is floating around the environment and the nature of feathers and similar biological structures.
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Old 05-02-2012, 10:07 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GLC View Post
...
This study essentially says:

Subject to further studies reproducing these results, there is evidence to suggest that certain identified substances were present in the environment of the chickens that grew the feathers for some unknown period, at some unknown concentration, and in some unknown means of exposure.
Yes. That's enough to make me concerned about eating those chickens.

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While it is indeed necessary to confirm that situation, some similar result could be predicted with high confidence, given what is known about what is floating around the environment and the nature of feathers and similar biological structures.
I don't know for sure that it was factory chickens, but if it was, they spent their lives in a very controlled environment.

I would really prefer if the food I eat didn't have access to those kinds of contaminants.
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Old 05-02-2012, 10:49 PM   #17
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Yes. That's enough to make me concerned about eating those chickens.

I don't know for sure that it was factory chickens, but if it was, they spent their lives in a very controlled environment.

I would really prefer if the food I eat didn't have access to those kinds of contaminants.
The point is that you can raise your own chickens at home, and there's every reason to believe the same kind of study would have detected an array of medicinals and chemicals in your chickens' feathers. And perhaps in their meat, for that matter.

It's pretty safe to guess that the feathers in feather meal come from production chickens at the point of commercial slaughter. I wouldn't venture to guess whether your backyard chickens or the commercial chickens would have which contaminants. Factory chickens might well be exposed to much lower levels of airborne pollution than city or suburban chickens, simply by virtue of being rural.

The point is that water supplies carry some load of medicinal products and byproducts excreted by humans. The air contains a vast array of pollutants. And urban home site may have anything from a normal array of herbicides and pesticides and lead, etc., to highly contaminated soils. And farms sites have a legacy of years of chemicals, commonly badly handled and disposed of. The study may have looked at feathers from factory chickens, but there is no reason to presume that the same study of yard birds would have had any much different result. They simply discovered what was already known or reasonably presumed. And, unless you're eating feather meal, it means almost nothing in practical terms, and may not mean much if you do happen to be eating it. (Not likely. Apparently one of the problems with it in cattle feeding is that the cattle just don't like it.)
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Old 05-02-2012, 10:59 PM   #18
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It's true, and I hadn't thought about it, that our water supply is contaminated with lots of leftover medication. Apparently the amount of hormones from women taking birth control is rather shocking. I know someone who won't drink any water except distilled water because of that.

I still don't want it in my food.
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Old 05-02-2012, 11:17 PM   #19
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The point is that you can raise your own chickens at home, and there's every reason to believe the same kind of study would have detected an array of medicinals and chemicals in your chickens' feathers. And perhaps in their meat, for that matter.
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It's true, and I hadn't thought about it, that our water supply is contaminated with lots of leftover medication. Apparently the amount of hormones from women taking birth control is rather shocking. I know someone who won't drink any water except distilled water because of that.
It is arguable whether we humans would fare any better than the chickens we eat if we (our hair or tissues) were subjected to the same testing as in the survey referred to in the OP. I too have read many articles describing how our urban water supplies are contaminated by antibiotics, birth control drugs anti-depressants (Prozac), pesticides, industrial chemicals, just about every chemical that man manufactures.

I wonder if we and our food were analyzed and compared, maybe we are just as unhealthy as our food. In fact we might even be more contaminated than our food, in which case maybe eating these contaminated chickens might even be relatively good for us.

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I still don't want it in my food.
Well that's the whole basis for the organic food movement. The real issue is that we need to take these organic concerns mainstream. If it's not good for those who are more critical and discerning than the rest of us, maybe it's not good for any of us. Maybe the organic enthusiasts are right and maybe the rest of us are killing ourselves with cheap but contaminated foods.
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Old 05-03-2012, 01:11 AM   #20
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And all of a sudden the site is now shutdown.
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