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Old 06-02-2011, 01:48 PM   #31
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According to a USDA definition, both FC and IC must contain a minimum of 10% milk fat. Both can contain more.

In addition, FC must contain a minimum percentage of egg yolk (don't remember the number). If there is less than that % of yolk in a mix, it's IC, not FC. So the difference is not in the amount of milk fat but in the amount of yolk.
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Old 06-02-2011, 03:16 PM   #32
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Thanks Andy!
I had always associated it with butter fat - due to the creamy, smooth texture.
But - I suppose the 6- lg. egg yolks in this recipe are the real identifier!
T
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Old 06-02-2011, 03:21 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodweed of the North View Post
By definition, custard is a combination of dairy, dairy fat, and egg. Ice cream is a generic term under which falls various frozen sweet concoctions are represented, such as ice milk, ice cream, French Vanilla Ice Cream (a frozen custard), and frozen custards and frozen custard bars.

Until the dairy is removed, frozen desert treats are generally termed ice cream.

Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North
Sorry but that is completely in-correct. No disrepect - If you remove all dairy - you would have something more akin to a gelato.......Perhaps in your locale you may refer to all frozen desserts as "ice cream" in a generic manner. But in the rest of the world this is not the case.

And just FYI - "French Vanilla" is a flavor - and one can even find it in coffee creamers, as well as ice cream OR frozen custard, frozen yogurt, ....and any number of other food products.

Amanda - THANK YOU - I hope you try it and find it as rich as your local custard.
T
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Old 06-02-2011, 03:40 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by teesquare View Post
Thanks Andy!
I had always associated it with butter fat - due to the creamy, smooth texture.
But - I suppose the 6- lg. egg yolks in this recipe are the real identifier!
T
The dividing line is fuzzy to say the least. The FC minimum yolk solids percent is 1.4% (I looked it up). So if a mix has 1.4% yolk solids and 10% milk fat it can be called FC. It can also accurately be called ice cream. All FCs are ice cream but not all ice creams are FC. You're not required to label a frozen dessert as FC rather than IC just because it qualifies as FC.

Of course, if the milkfat content drops below 10%, it's not IC either. It's ice milk. (yuk)
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Old 06-02-2011, 03:45 PM   #35
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So - how does one define when you have an ice cream headache vs a frozen custard headache

It appears to be a nebulous issue - does it not?

T
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Old 06-02-2011, 05:29 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teesquare View Post
Sorry but that is completely in-correct. No disrepect - If you remove all dairy - you would have something more akin to a gelato.......Perhaps in your locale you may refer to all frozen desserts as "ice cream" in a generic manner. But in the rest of the world this is not the case.

And just FYI - "French Vanilla" is a flavor - and one can even find it in coffee creamers, as well as ice cream OR frozen custard, frozen yogurt, ....and any number of other food products.

Amanda - THANK YOU - I hope you try it and find it as rich as your local custard.
T
Notice that is stated that when the dairy is removed, it no longer falls under the generic term - ice cream. Also, though french vanilla is indeed a flavor, it is the flavor of a particular ice cream that is made from a custard base, using egg yolks and vanilla. The French Vanilla flavor in other products is an attempt to copy the French Vanilla ice cream flavor, just as hazelnut coffe creamers try to duplicate the flavors of hazelnut oil, and cream.

Here is a link for French Vanilla ice cream from the "Simply Recipes" website: French Vanilla Ice Cream Recipe | Simply Recipes I looked at multiple online recipes for French Vanilla ice cream and they all were made with a combination of cream, milk, vanilla, sugar, and egg yolks.

As stated in my previous post, French Vanilla ice cream is a custard based ice cream.

And from a more chemist standpoint, frozen custards, and custard based ice creams are smoother than are their non-custard cousins. This is because the egg yolks have a natural emulsifier that work to emulsify the milkfat (bind the fat molecules to the water molecules) so as to reduce the size and number of ice crystals in the product. It still firms up nicely, but remains softer without the need for adding anti-freeze agents to the product.

I was wrong in stating that all dairy-based frozen desert products fell under the ice-cream umbrella. In the U.S. Sherbet is a dairy based frozen treat. In other parts of the world, sherbet is the same thing as sorbet, which is dairy free.

And yes, in many, many places in the U.S., at least before the internet came along, not a lot of people in this country knew the difference between ice cream and frozen custard. If it was frozen, and had dairy, air, and sugar in it, it was a kind of ice cream treat.

To foodies, the label placed on a product means something. We like well defined, descriptive labels, that tell us exactly what we are eating. To the average Joe or Jane, a granita is simply shaved ice. A sorbet could be confused with a slushy. Ice cream can mean anything from a frozen custard to hard ice cream (found cold and in a tub, to be scooped into cones or on top of sundays), to Dairy Queen type soft ice creams and ice milks. After 55 years on this planet, I have learned that there are people who insist that maple syrup is made by mixing simple syrup with maple flavoring, or Maypliene (sp), and who told me I didn't have a clue when I tried to explain that it was made by concentrating maple sap through evaporation cause by boiling.

There's room enough for many perceptions.
Yes, there are legal specifications for custards, differing types of creams, cheeses, meats, grain products, etc. But when it really comes down to it, we eat what we want to eat, no matter what it's called. And a great many people, I would postulate that most, have very little knowledge of the correct terminology used with foods.

Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North
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Old 06-02-2011, 06:24 PM   #37
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Now...I AM confused....

By definition, custard is a combination of dairy, dairy fat, and egg. Ice cream is a generic term Ah...the rub....under which falls various frozen sweet concoctions are represented, such as ice milk, ice cream, French Vanilla Ice Cream (a frozen custard), and frozen custards and frozen custard bars.

Until the dairy is removed, frozen desert treats are generally termed ice cream.

Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North



Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodweed of the North View Post
Notice that is stated that when the dairy is removed, it no longer falls under the generic term - ice cream. Also, though french vanilla is indeed a flavor, it is the flavor of a particular ice cream that is made from a custard base, using egg yolks and vanilla. The French Vanilla flavor in other products is an attempt to copy the French Vanilla ice cream flavor, just as hazelnut coffe creamers try to duplicate the flavors of hazelnut oil, and cream.

Here is a link for French Vanilla ice cream from the "Simply Recipes" website: French Vanilla Ice Cream Recipe | Simply Recipes I looked at multiple online recipes for French Vanilla ice cream and they all were made with a combination of cream, milk, vanilla, sugar, and egg yolks.

As stated in my previous post, French Vanilla ice cream is a custard based ice cream.

And from a more chemist standpoint, frozen custards, and custard based ice creams are smoother than are their non-custard cousins. NO question about that! This is because the egg yolks have a natural emulsifier that work to emulsify the milkfat (bind the fat molecules to the water molecules) so as to reduce the size and number of ice crystals in the product. It still firms up nicely, but remains softer without the need for adding anti-freeze agents to the product. I did say that earlier in this thread.......

I was wrong in stating that all dairy-based frozen desert products fell under the ice-cream umbrella. In the U.S. Sherbet is a dairy based frozen treat. In other parts of the world, sherbet is the same thing as sorbet, which is dairy free. The "umbrella"...I think that is the same one that often you will hear when someone asks for a "Coke"....but they are actually wanting a carbonated soda. I even heard someone ask for an "Orange Coke" - and point at a Nehi Orange Soda. Communicating via a specific term helps both parties understand what is wanted, and to serve the correct item, no?
So - it appears that many have generisized all frozen treats as "ice cream"...shame - as it really dumbs down the descriptive abilities afford us via use of the English language.
(Yet we continue to create garbage words, slang and guttural utterances which become mainstream....I weep for the future - though am content to not participate in it to that degree )

And yes, in many, many places in the U.S., at least before the internet came along, not a lot of people in this country knew the difference between ice cream and frozen custard. Forgive me - but the previous statement represents a cultural bias. I know it is not intentional - but it lumps most people into the same "un-knowing" or lack of exposure to other cultural influences. If it was frozen, and had dairy, air, and sugar in it, it was a kind of ice cream treat. Again, this may very well be true for you - and your personal experience - but it is by no means true for all. It may represent a local colloquialism.

To foodies, the label placed on a product means something. We like well defined, descriptive labels, that tell us exactly what we are eating. Thus this entire discussion...my custard - may be your "ice cream"...I understand this I think.To the average Joe or Jane, a granita is simply shaved ice. A sorbet could be confused with a slushy. Ice cream can mean anything from a frozen custard to hard ice cream (found cold and in a tub, to be scooped into cones or on top of sundays), to Dairy Queen type soft ice creams and ice milks. After 55 years on this planet, I have learned that there are people who insist that maple syrup is made by mixing simple syrup with maple flavoring, or Maypliene (sp), and who told me I didn't have a clue when I tried to explain that it was made by concentrating maple sap through evaporation cause by boiling. You should have held them by force and made them TASTE the difference

There's room enough for many perceptions.Agreed.
Yes, there are legal specifications for custards, differing types of creams, cheeses, meats, grain products, etc. But when it really comes down to it, we eat what we want to eat, no matter what it's called. And a great many people, I would postulate that most, have very little knowledge of the correct terminology used with foods. And - for me- I find that the ignorance we all choose to accept - is that which we deserve - and that which becomes our master, limiting our ability to understand the world around us in a fuller, richer manner.
If we just want to continue the cultural slide downward as for our foods and society in general - then we should just continue the trend of genericizing names of everything...
That way when you go into a restaruant in the near future - you can simply say "food" - and you will receive whatever the local generic definition of food is.
Where would the French or the Brits be if "cheese" was good enough a word to describe the hundreds of varieties they make?
Could we justifiably use the excuse that - "the average Joe" calls it all cheese?
And - at the end of it all....it is just a frozen dessert. But wouldn't it be helpful if we could find a way to choose words that help us define our expectations so when we order it, or serve it, or buy it - we know what to expect?
And remember folks..."USDA"...*is* a 4 letter word
T

Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North
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Old 06-02-2011, 06:42 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodweed of the North View Post
Notice that is stated that when the dairy is removed, it no longer falls under the generic term - ice cream. Also, though french vanilla is indeed a flavor, it is the flavor of a particular ice cream that is made from a custard base, using egg yolks and vanilla. The French Vanilla flavor in other products is an attempt to copy the French Vanilla ice cream flavor, just as hazelnut coffe creamers try to duplicate the flavors of hazelnut oil, and cream.

Here is a link for French Vanilla ice cream from the "Simply Recipes" website: French Vanilla Ice Cream Recipe | Simply Recipes I looked at multiple online recipes for French Vanilla ice cream and they all were made with a combination of cream, milk, vanilla, sugar, and egg yolks.

As stated in my previous post, French Vanilla ice cream is a custard based ice cream.

And from a more chemist standpoint, frozen custards, and custard based ice creams are smoother than are their non-custard cousins. This is because the egg yolks have a natural emulsifier that work to emulsify the milkfat (bind the fat molecules to the water molecules) so as to reduce the size and number of ice crystals in the product. It still firms up nicely, but remains softer without the need for adding anti-freeze agents to the product.

I was wrong in stating that all dairy-based frozen desert products fell under the ice-cream umbrella. In the U.S. Sherbet is a dairy based frozen treat. In other parts of the world, sherbet is the same thing as sorbet, which is dairy free.

And yes, in many, many places in the U.S., at least before the internet came along, not a lot of people in this country knew the difference between ice cream and frozen custard. If it was frozen, and had dairy, air, and sugar in it, it was a kind of ice cream treat.

To foodies, the label placed on a product means something. We like well defined, descriptive labels, that tell us exactly what we are eating. To the average Joe or Jane, a granita is simply shaved ice. A sorbet could be confused with a slushy. Ice cream can mean anything from a frozen custard to hard ice cream (found cold and in a tub, to be scooped into cones or on top of sundays), to Dairy Queen type soft ice creams and ice milks. After 55 years on this planet, I have learned that there are people who insist that maple syrup is made by mixing simple syrup with maple flavoring, or Maypliene (sp), and who told me I didn't have a clue when I tried to explain that it was made by concentrating maple sap through evaporation cause by boiling.

There's room enough for many perceptions.
Yes, there are legal specifications for custards, differing types of creams, cheeses, meats, grain products, etc. But when it really comes down to it, we eat what we want to eat, no matter what it's called. And a great many people, I would postulate that most, have very little knowledge of the correct terminology used with foods.

Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North
Well said young feller.
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Old 06-03-2011, 01:20 AM   #39
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I am a British Custard snob, in fact I put the Tard in Cus.GW is correct check out the recipes for Creme Anglaise,Zuppa Inglese and home made British custard all produce excellent ice cream. For one of my fav ice creams I make that modern Italian Pud Tiramisu (I prefer the more trad Zuccotto) I then add it to Creme Anglaise custard base blitz with a stick blender and put it in the machine. Custard appears to have been around in the UK since the 16th century. Ps has anyone tried Akutaq made from rendered whale blubber.
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Ice cream? Not exactly.... [SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri] ICE CREAM RECIPE….O.K. – IT IS REALLY FROZEN CUSTARD[/FONT][/SIZE] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]( It will not freeze solid like typical homemade ice cream – and it is as rich and creamy as anything you will ever eat! ) But – it uses un cooked egg yolks – so if you are squeamish about it – you may to heat the mixture gently in a pan on the stove first. I have never had a problem – but…hey – I eat “bait” (sushi)…[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]BASIC RECIPE:[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]1-[/SIZE][/FONT] [/FONT][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]16 OZ WHIPPING CREAM[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]1-[/SIZE][/FONT] [/FONT][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]16 OZ HALF AND HALF[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]2-[/SIZE][/FONT] [/FONT][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]CANS OF EAGLE BRAND SWEETENED CONDENSED MILK[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]6- EGG YOLKS[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]¾ CUP OF SUGAR[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]¼ TSP. OF SALT[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]For Vanilla ice cream:[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]You can add vanilla extract to taste if you want basic vanilla. Better yet – Get several vanilla beans – and scrape the insides into a very small amount of water (2 oz. or so) and then simmer the beans and the scrapings to extract all the flavor you can. Add to the mix.[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]You can also do some interesting things with nutmeg and cinnamon to create an egg-nog flavor.[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]For Strawberry:[/SIZE][/FONT] [SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri] 1-1/2 lbs. strawberries. Cut up half of them into ¼’’ – ½’’ pieces[/FONT][/SIZE] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]Puree the rest, and add to the the above mix.[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]For Chocolate Covered Strawberry flavor –[/SIZE][/FONT] [SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri] Add 3 Hersheys Dark Chocolate candy bars. Mince them into 1/8’’ – ¼’’ pieces, then add to the mix above.[/FONT][/SIZE] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]For Chocolate Covered Cherry- same as above – but with use ripe Bing cherries – or what ever cherries are available.[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]For Cajun Banana Nut – Use the basic recipe above, and then add:[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]3-[/SIZE][/FONT] [/FONT][SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri] 4 - 6 Ripe bananas – mashed well with a fork until “chunky puree”[/FONT][/SIZE] [FONT=Calibri][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]4-[/SIZE][/FONT] [/FONT][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]Heat skillet with 3-4 tbs. of butter, and a pink of salt and 1 cup packed dark brown sugar.[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]5-[/SIZE][/FONT] [/FONT][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]After the mixture is gently warmed until the sugar is completely dissolved - Add approx 6-8 oz. of chopped pecans, stirring them in to coat them. Turn off heat – and keep moving them around until the brown sugar begins to cling to the pecan. Then place them on a cookie sheet to cool, then break them up and add to the above basic mix along with bananas as above.[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]For Amaretto Peach:[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]1-1/2 lbs. of ripe peaches, chopped into small pieces like in the strawberry recipe. Puree half of them.[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]Warm skillet on low/medium, and add 2 tbs. butter. Put approx. ½ lb. sliced or almond slivers in skillet, watch and stir constantly. Brown them. Then add fine ground salt to taste. Add to mix.[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]You can also add a shot or two of real Amaretto if you want – or a few drops of Almond extract. Careful though, you can overpower the peach flavor.[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]This is incredibly rich... and not like the the typical home made ice cream ( which is most often ice "milk" ) and not for everybody. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]But - if you like silky smooth, buttery rich frozen custard...THIS is it.:wink:[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]T[/SIZE][/FONT] 3 stars 1 reviews
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