Link to Primary thread: KA Problem, Dilemma, Aargh!!!
So I decided to 'upgrade' to the Pro 600 6 qt 575 watt lift bowl after burning up/ causing gear tramma to two Pro 5 units.
I'll keep this as short as possible:
I called KA CS on Thursday and was offered an upgrade to the 600 for $80, said I had to think about it, talked to Wife, got the Ok.
Called on Saturday, gave the CS agent the case #, told her I would take the upgrade, she said they would need the receipt. What?
She wanted the reciept so they knew what to charge me ... ? they had already offered the upgrade for $80 .... KA wanted to charge me the difference between what I paid on sale at Sears and the price KA has the Pro 600 listed for on their site ... NUMEROUS EXPLETIVES DELETED!!.
Shop and look and wait and eventually with patience fall into a deal and now give it all away because the machines can't do what KA says their suppose to be able to do?
So I call back Monday, same thing, difference between sale price and MSRP, told this one they ought to upgrade for free, if thats how they want to be I'll just keep burnen and returnen 'em, and eventually get to a 'supervisor'.
Supervisor and I go over my technique, I put the sponge and ingredients in the bowl, run till it comes together, 20 minute autolyse then finish with 2~3 minute knead.
She determined I was kneading my bread twice,a nd I'm kneading the dough too long and thats what is damaging the machines.
? What ?
Looking through their manual I see I'm within their knead times, what I'm doing is putting 20 minutes between the coming together and the knead for hydration/ autolyse. (she was unfamiliar with the term autolyse, and I believe the concept was new to her)
CS also wanted to make an issue out of my not knowing how much flour I'm using. I make bread by weight, my flour is 40 ounces at the MAXIMUM, which is 10 cups assuming 4 ounces per cup. BUT flour actually comes in at a hair over 4.5 ounces per cup (4.7 if it's densely packed) so it's under 9 cups. The pro 5 is rated at 12 cups so I was running it under 3/4 capacity.
And I run heavier hydration than they suggest ... could that make it harder on the machine? It doesn't seem like it would.
And about the knead time, aren't we suppose to be able to run a machine sold as a bread kneader till the dough is smooth and elastic? Shouldn't the machine be able to be ran until the glutens are fully developed? I could see over kneading till the gluten breaks down being an issue with burning them up.
Incidentally the 'supervisor' said I have to follow the recipes in the book, then backtracked in a shaky voice because she realized what her words implied. She covered by stating I have to follow the guidlines in the manual, far as I can tell I have been.
In Conclusion:
1) KA tried scamming me on the upgrade cost.
2) The supervisor(s) either play(s) dumb or are uninformed.
3) Be careful what you say to CS, they now have me down as a machine abuser (I don't see it) even though I've been running the Pro 5 at 75% capacity. At least the 600 should last longer because it will be getting ran at 66%.
I think I'm going to sign up in the KA web site and ask them what they think.
So I decided to 'upgrade' to the Pro 600 6 qt 575 watt lift bowl after burning up/ causing gear tramma to two Pro 5 units.
I'll keep this as short as possible:
I called KA CS on Thursday and was offered an upgrade to the 600 for $80, said I had to think about it, talked to Wife, got the Ok.
Called on Saturday, gave the CS agent the case #, told her I would take the upgrade, she said they would need the receipt. What?
She wanted the reciept so they knew what to charge me ... ? they had already offered the upgrade for $80 .... KA wanted to charge me the difference between what I paid on sale at Sears and the price KA has the Pro 600 listed for on their site ... NUMEROUS EXPLETIVES DELETED!!.
Shop and look and wait and eventually with patience fall into a deal and now give it all away because the machines can't do what KA says their suppose to be able to do?
So I call back Monday, same thing, difference between sale price and MSRP, told this one they ought to upgrade for free, if thats how they want to be I'll just keep burnen and returnen 'em, and eventually get to a 'supervisor'.
Supervisor and I go over my technique, I put the sponge and ingredients in the bowl, run till it comes together, 20 minute autolyse then finish with 2~3 minute knead.
She determined I was kneading my bread twice,a nd I'm kneading the dough too long and thats what is damaging the machines.
? What ?
Looking through their manual I see I'm within their knead times, what I'm doing is putting 20 minutes between the coming together and the knead for hydration/ autolyse. (she was unfamiliar with the term autolyse, and I believe the concept was new to her)
CS also wanted to make an issue out of my not knowing how much flour I'm using. I make bread by weight, my flour is 40 ounces at the MAXIMUM, which is 10 cups assuming 4 ounces per cup. BUT flour actually comes in at a hair over 4.5 ounces per cup (4.7 if it's densely packed) so it's under 9 cups. The pro 5 is rated at 12 cups so I was running it under 3/4 capacity.
And I run heavier hydration than they suggest ... could that make it harder on the machine? It doesn't seem like it would.
And about the knead time, aren't we suppose to be able to run a machine sold as a bread kneader till the dough is smooth and elastic? Shouldn't the machine be able to be ran until the glutens are fully developed? I could see over kneading till the gluten breaks down being an issue with burning them up.
Incidentally the 'supervisor' said I have to follow the recipes in the book, then backtracked in a shaky voice because she realized what her words implied. She covered by stating I have to follow the guidlines in the manual, far as I can tell I have been.
In Conclusion:
1) KA tried scamming me on the upgrade cost.
2) The supervisor(s) either play(s) dumb or are uninformed.
3) Be careful what you say to CS, they now have me down as a machine abuser (I don't see it) even though I've been running the Pro 5 at 75% capacity. At least the 600 should last longer because it will be getting ran at 66%.
I think I'm going to sign up in the KA web site and ask them what they think.
