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Old 11-27-2007, 12:14 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Robo410 View Post
stainless should not rust. 18/10 stainless shoul dstand up to the dishwasher ok. Stainless may turn blueish here and there from alkalai and heat. Salt can pit it (small white dots) but it still cooks and cleans fine. Barkeepers friend should help restore it, as will Sheila Shine.

My guess is the quality of the stainless is a problem. The good stuff is not cheap. Or you have VERY HARD water.
I think you're right, Robo. It's been the very inexpensive ss items in my kitchen that have rusted.

As a side note, I love Sheila Shine!!! I just discovered it this spring but it's so fantastic, I've given a can of it to most of my friends. The guy at the restaurant supply house finally asked me what kitchen I was buying for because I had bought so much of it. But really, this stuff is amazing!
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Old 11-27-2007, 12:17 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Goodweed of the North View Post
Buzzard767. You seem to have a penchant for arguing. So let me add my two cents to Andy's. Though you are technically correct, and no steel is impervious to rust, there are varieties of stainless steel that are highly rust resistant. For instance, there a numerous brands of diving knives designed to resist rust in highly corrosive salt water. There are stainless steels that are used in critical applications, such as potable water tanks, and tubing on sea-going ships, etc. Stainless steel also resists staining due to contact with foreign agents.

Of course there are a host of factors that determine just how tough, and resistant stainless steel pots, appliences, tools, knives, etc. are. There are also variations in Rockwell Hardness, maleability, elasticity, tensile and shear strength, shock resistance, and a whole battery of other properties.

All that being said, most stainless steel products can take a fair amount of abuse and still resist corrosion, chipping, breaking, etc. If a particular brand tends to rust after one machine washing, I'd say use a different brand that has higher quality steel.

And if you really want to be free from corrosion (and yes, if exposed to the right acid, even gold corrodes), use ceramics, or titanium tools. But then you will have to settle for tools more brittle than the steel counterparts, in the case of ceramics, or knives that are impossibly difficult to sharpen, and that won't hold an edge in the case of titanium. But they are both corrosion proof, period.

And that's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North
For the most part I agree with you, um, except for the part about arguing. I merely disagree, but perhaps present my case a bit too strongly for your taste. I am Buzz and you are Goodweed. Live with it. When I see something I believe is incorrect, I voice my opinion. You even agree with me by saying "you are technically correct".

Buzz - from the technically correct group as opposed to ???????
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Old 11-27-2007, 12:22 AM   #13
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I'm with you on that Andy. Remember all I said was there is no such animal as true stainless steel. Given reasonable care, 13%+ chromium will shine for decades. However, neglected, a price will eventually be paid. Chromium acts as a protectorant, like applying vasiline to a carbon blade that won't be used for a few months. The carbide particles that are not either combined with, or protected by, chromium, will rust.

Buzz
Carbide is a form of carbon that is mixed with steel to make it harder and hold its edge longer (think knives, carbid runners on snowmobile skis, etc). The carbide doesn't rust. The steel rusts. And what is rust? Rust is teh most stable state for batural iron and is a combination of iron and oxygen. Feric oxide is rust. Rust is caused by the migration of ellectrons though valence circles in teh iron and oxegen molecules, binding the two elements together in stable pairs. And remember, all things in nature seek their most stable form. Both cromium and nickle play a part in negating the iron's ability to attach to oxygen and for rust. In fact, if you have heard of stainless steel's magnetic properties, this is due to the nickle element, as nickle is a naturally magnetic element.

So, steel, being an amalgamation of iron, carbon, and other additives, gains peculiar properties by the mixture of these adidtives. tungsten is another popular additive that strengthens and hardens steel.

There is much more to this than we really want to get into.

Seeeeeya; Goodweed of the North
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Old 11-27-2007, 12:29 AM   #14
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Play nice, boys!

I was reading something the other night about "Stainless" steel ... and the way they were talking ... it's not stainless and totally non-corossive ... it is more like it will "stain less" than steal.

Amazing some of the things you run across in the middle of the night when you're suffering from such a bad case of indigestion you can't lay down ... (or is it lie down???)

FWIW: Just to take the edge off, so to speak ... the first culinary application of SS was in about 1919 - a set of knives. They were known as the knives that couldn't be sharpened ....yep, they folded in a couple of years. Oops - sorry, no pun intended.
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Old 11-27-2007, 12:34 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Goodweed of the North View Post
Carbide is a form of carbon that is mixed with steel to make it harder and hold its edge longer (think knives, carbid runners on snowmobile skis, etc). The carbide doesn't rust. The steel rusts. And what is rust? Rust is teh most stable state for batural iron and is a combination of iron and oxygen. Feric oxide is rust. Rust is caused by the migration of ellectrons though valence circles in teh iron and oxegen molecules, binding the two elements together in stable pairs. And remember, all things in nature seek their most stable form. Both cromium and nickle play a part in negating the iron's ability to attach to oxygen and for rust. In fact, if you have heard of stainless steel's magnetic properties, this is due to the nickle element, as nickle is a naturally magnetic element.

So, steel, being an amalgamation of iron, carbon, and other additives, gains peculiar properties by the mixture of these adidtives. tungsten is another popular additive that strengthens and hardens steel.

There is much more to this than we really want to get into.

Seeeeeya; Goodweed of the North
Goodweed - I interpret your post as saying that steel rusts. Wow.

Buzz
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Old 11-27-2007, 12:43 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Michael in FtW View Post
Play nice, boys!

I was reading something the other night about "Stainless" steel ... and the way they were talking ... it's not stainless and totally non-corossive ... it is more like it will "stain less" than steal.

Amazing some of the things you run across in the middle of the night when you're suffering from such a bad case of indigestion you can't lay down ... (or is it lie down???)

FWIW: Just to take the edge off, so to speak ... the first culinary application of SS was in about 1919 - a set of knives. They were known as the knives that couldn't be sharpened ....yep, they folded in a couple of years. Oops - sorry, no pun intended.
Sorry about your tummy Michael. The other guy and I are both "with spirit" and some real information is being passed if you have the patience to find it.

As to lay and lie, how 'bout loose and lose, they're, their, and there, and first and foremost, pictures are hung, men are hanged. Sorry, couldn't help myself, Mom was a relentless English teacher.

Buzz - Marine with an education???? No, couldn't be possible.....
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Old 11-27-2007, 02:03 AM   #17
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When I bought my house ten years ago, I was given a cutlery set made by Stanley Rogers but made in Indonesia. It is marked "Stainless Steel" but when you read the brochure they clarified the term to mean "Stains-less Steel". Other stainless steel items I have had have remained in good condition. The cutlery set, while usable for everyday eating, has small pit marks and discolouration spots. The stainless steel cutlery set that my parents had when I was a small child, which was used for picnics, and I now own, is still in good condition.

Without entering into the chemical/engineering composition debate, I think it is fair to say that stainless steel, ain't what it was!
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Old 11-27-2007, 08:22 AM   #18
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Why is it that whenever I obtain something that claims it is "stainless steel" it ends up getting rusty? This has happened many times including a nice set of knives I got for Christmas one year. Am I missing somehing in the care? Am I doing something wrong with them like washing them in the dishwasher?
You can use some barkeepers friend to help remove rust. And if you have some good quality knives, I would recommend hand washing them, as the dishwashing detergents can be harsh on the blade.
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Old 11-27-2007, 08:56 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by jeninga75 View Post
Am I doing something wrong with them like washing them in the dishwasher?

That right there is what you're doing wrong. As stated, dishwashing detergents are extremely harsh on metal, and any nice SS pieces you have should never for any reason reason go into the dishwasher.

My good knives are handwashed only, usually only with hot water and a plastic scrub brush, unless I've been working with raw meats, fish or poultry, in which case I use a bit of Dawn. At the restaurant we keep bleach water for disinfecting our knives in.

Also any vegetable peelers, microplanes, graters, zesters, tongs, whisks, should stay out of the dishwasher if you want there to be no chance of rust.

I do have some cheaper pieces that I don't use often and are low quality, and I don't really mind if they pick up a rust spot here and there, and those I allow in the dishwasher. Everything else gets handwashed.
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Old 11-27-2007, 03:22 PM   #20
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The judge comes home and wife asks about the hearing he just presided over. She asks what happened.
J: The Defendant spoke
W: and?
J: I told him that he was right
W: and?
J: The Plaintiff spoke.
W: And?
J: I told him that he was right.
W: But it is wrong they cannot be both right
J: You are right dear.

This is the case when everybody is correct and arguing for absolutely no reason. Im used to make knives and honestly do know what Im talking about.

Good quality knives even if washed in dishwasher will not rust. Chipper lower quality junk will stain and even rust. So everybody is correct here. To the original poster. If you suspect your knives are of good quality and rusted because of factory fault go and demand to exchange them. If you do know that they are junk, throw them away and go get your self knew, good quality knife that you will not put in dishwasher, even though it could handle it.
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