Pickling: mustard powder

[Ravich]

My roommate makes these wonderful mustard pickles with a recipe passed down in her family. It does not require refrigeration, so I guess that means the pickles ferment?

Anyway, I wanted to do some pickling even though we cant buy pickling cucumbers anymore, so I just cut regular cucumbers into spears and removed most of the seeds. My plan is to keep them in the refrigerator so that I dont have to worry about spoiling and they keep for longer.


Aaaaanyway, I used the recipe, and to my surprise, the ground mustard didnt really dissolve at all despite boiling the brine. There are lots of visible bits floating around and they sink to the bottom when left to sit. Is there a secret to this that I am unaware of? Is it possible that the quality of ground mustard was an issue?


Also: the pickles, when kept out in a ceramic pot thing, only take a 2-3 days to be ready. Will this be different if they are kept in the refrigerator?

Thanks

 

[GotGarlic]

Hi, Ravich. It would be easier for us to help you if you post the entire recipe.

I haven't used ground mustard in pickling, just whole mustard seeds, but they're lightly pounded to release flavor. These and other ingredients do sink to the bottom of the jars, but since the liquid is well-flavored, it doesn't matter. They're just left in to look nice and indicate what seasonings were used.

btw, refrigerating them does not mean they won't spoil. They should last a month or so. Hope this helps.

 

[Addie]

The next time try to add a small amount of water to the dry mustard and stir until well blended. Then add the liquid mixture to your pickling spices. I wouldn't be botherred by the fact that it didn't disolve. the flavor is still there. But that is just me.

 

[Ravich]

Recipe is 1 quart of distilled vinegar, 1/4 cup ground mustard, 1/4 cup salt, 1/2 cup sugar.

And the recipe does say to make a paste, but I didnt bother because I figured boiling it would get rid of that issue. If the flavor is still there, then I'm not bothered. I just wanted to check.



Regarding them keeping for a month, I believe you, but why do I hear/read things about pickles that need to sit for 4-6 weeks before they're even ready?

 

[GotGarlic]

Regarding them keeping for a month, I believe you, but why do I hear/read things about pickles that need to sit for 4-6 weeks before they're even ready?

Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought you were talking about refrigerator pickles, not hot-water-canned pickles. If you can them, then yes, with some recipes, they need to sit for a while. Refrigerator pickles should be ready to eat in a couple of days, but they won't last forever

Here's a good article about both methods by the author of a blog and cookbook called Food in Jars: Small Batch Recipe: Garlic Dill Refrigerator Pickles btw, I've made these pickles several times and they're great

 

[Ravich]

Oh, I am talking about refrigerator pickles. Here's what confuses me:


A couple of weeks ago I went to visit a friend, and her mother in law owns a small farm. She was doing some pickling, and we helped her with it, and she was trying out a pickled tomatillo recipe.

The brine was boiled and then poured into the jars (which had been in the oven), but they werent heated after that. According to her, these will be ready a bit before christmas, so after about 6 weeks.

So.... which bit of info is the weakest link?

 

[GotGarlic]

Well, we've reached the limit of my canning expertise. Maybe someone with more experience will chime in.

 

[mcnerd]

I love these discussions of the best ways to poison yourself. Partially kidding, but these are actually serious issues.

If the brine is being boiled first, it is not a fermented pickle and everything must refrigerated or canned (pasteurized). Old recipes often did not require this and science has shown this can be potentially dangerous. Old recipes should be tossed.

Fermentation is the intentional growing of bacteria, but in such a way to confine the good bacteria and keep out the bad stuff. If the precautions are not followed you end up with a spoiled product. Eventually the fermented product must be refrigerated or canned.

Canning is pasteurizing the product so it can be stored at room temperature without spoilage. The disadvantage is that the food is 'cooked' which can effect the crispness and other qualities of the food.

Each method has its own advantages and disadvantages. What is important is knowing the reasons and methods for each of them. No shortcuts unless you want to potentially poison yourself.

 

[Ravich]

My roommate does not boil the brine. I did because I was going to refrigerate them and thought why not. What is it about boiling the brine that means the pickles will not ferment? Is it that the brine is added while still hot?

I see most refrigerator pickles call for 1 part vinegar to 1 part water. Is this because they do not ferment and the flavor is somehow different?


Still wondering about the 6 week tomatillos.

 

[mcnerd]

MyWhat is it about boiling the brine that means the pickles will not ferment?

Boiling kills the active bacteria.

I see most refrigerator pickles call for 1 part vinegar to 1 part water. Is this because they do not ferment and the flavor is somehow different?

They are called 'quick pickles' because they use vinegar instead of fermentation.

Refrigerator pickles are not "cooked" so they are much crunchier, but the brine must be boiled first and poured over the food to kill most active bacteria. Refrigeration will then slow down any further bacteria growth for a short period.

 

[PrincessFiona60]

You are not fermenting, you have not decided which bacteria to selectively choose to pickle your product. Kinda like making yogurt, only the right bacteria will give you the results that equal yogurt and not spoiled milk.

Boiling your brine or not, you are only pickling, canning them means to seal under pressure so they keep longer at room temp. You are also not doing this. Hence, you are only pickling, not creating a shelf stable product. Anything opened should be used in 30 days to avoid problems, refrigerated or not.

 

[Ravich]

Boiling kills the active bacteria.

They are called 'quick pickles' because they use vinegar instead of fermentation.

What I was clarifying is whether it matters that the brine is added to the vegetables while still near boiling. It seems that the answer is yes.

Refrigerator pickles are not "cooked" so they are much crunchier, but the brine must be boiled first and poured over the food to kill most active bacteria. Refrigeration will then slow down any further bacteria growth for a short period.

Makes sense. I was wondering whether pickles that do not require refrigeration tend to use entirely vinegar instead of 1:1 vinegar:water that I see in most recipes.


Assuming there is no cooking involved, I am seeing 2 options:
1) Refrigerator pickles, where a vinegar based brine is boiled and then added to vegetables, then stored in the refrigerator. Keeps for up to 1 month.
2) Fermented pickles, where water + spices are used. Fermentation takes place at room temperature, then pickles can be stored in the refrigerator for a long time after that.


My question is where my roommate's pickles and my friend's mom's pickles fall into place, one being vinegar brine at room temperature, the other being refrigerator pickles, but supposedly not ready for 6 weeks.

Is it just a coincidence that nobody has died from these in the last several decades?

 

[mcnerd]

Makes sense. I was wondering whether pickles that do not require refrigeration tend to use entirely vinegar instead of 1:1 vinegar:water that I see in most recipes.

There are NO safe recipes that do not require refrigeration or canning. Fermenting pickles are safe only because they are sealed away from harmful bacteria for a period of time, but even those require refrigeration or canning when removed from the fermentation container.

My question is where my roommate's pickles and my friend's mom's pickles fall into place, one being vinegar brine at room temperature, the other being refrigerator pickles, but supposedly not ready for 6 weeks.

They fall into the potentially unsafe category. Like playing Russian Roulette you may go a long time before something serious happens, and when it does you do not want to be the recipient.

The immune system will protect most people with mild food poisoning, but you always hear the warnings about small children and seniors who may not have strong immune systems. Stronger food poisoning often resembles Flu symptoms.

Is it just a coincidence that nobody has died from these in the last several decades?

How do you know that? Those that did are not in a position to tell you how they died. I'm a fanatic on the subject because I had a close friend who died of food poisoning. He didn't believe in the safety rules on preserving foods.

You probably won't die from pickles or similar high acid foods, unless your immune system is weakened, but you can get plenty sick and end up in the hospital. There are lots of bacterias, molds, yeasts, and fungi that love to grow on/in foods and they don't live or die equally.

The big killer is C. Botulinum (Botulism) and that danger occurs with meats and vegetables (not acidic) that are canned or otherwise stored in a vacuum improperly. The toxin is odorless, colorless, and tasteless and a tiny amount is potent enough to kill thousands.

 

[GotGarlic]

Is it just a coincidence that nobody has died from these in the last several decades?

As mcnerd said, you don't really know that. Has anyone ever had the 24-hour flu after eating them? There's no such thing as 24-hour flu. Typically, it's a mild case of food poisoning.

 

[Addie]

Garlic is one of those root veggies that just love to harbor all the nasty bacterias that are in the dirt. So any time you are adding raw garlic, you have to make sure it has been scrubbed clean. Better that you boil it or cook it some other manner. Certain bacteria love certain root veggies. But all the nasty ones just love the garlic.