SEEING-TO-BELIEVE
Head Chef
thanks and love
Is it a good idea to put dark roux in ragu?
- Thread starter SEEING-TO-BELIEVE
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pictonguy
Sous Chef
Ragu can be and mean a lot of things, what kind of ragu? I've never used a roux for a ragu, but that doesn't mean others haven't.
Perhaps you are mixing up the terms of roux and mirepoix.
basically-
Roux is a way to thicken. Mirepoix is a flavour starter.
basically-
Roux is a way to thicken. Mirepoix is a flavour starter.
Quickdraw
Assistant Cook
I don't know why not if you want your ragu thicker
Why specifically a dark roux?
Badjak
Sous Chef
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2010
- Messages
- 559
Semantics may come in maybe
Ragout for me is a flour based sauce, often with mushrooms and some meat and starts with a roux.
A bit like a loaded bechamel sauce.
A dark roux will just make it darker and maybe a bit nuttier, but thats no problem
Ragu is a different thing alltogether.
Maybe Seeing means the first meaning?
Ragout for me is a flour based sauce, often with mushrooms and some meat and starts with a roux.
A bit like a loaded bechamel sauce.
A dark roux will just make it darker and maybe a bit nuttier, but thats no problem
Ragu is a different thing alltogether.
Maybe Seeing means the first meaning?
OP
OP
SEEING-TO-BELIEVE
Head Chef
i plan to make a grounded meat ragu.
i wanted it to be thick..
but you are saying that roux will not be beneficial in it.
btw this is the recipe. can it work good without the internal parts that he adds?
tnx
i wanted it to be thick..
but you are saying that roux will not be beneficial in it.
btw this is the recipe. can it work good without the internal parts that he adds?
tnx
Do you mean the chicken liver? I have never heard of putting that in Ragu, but he does say it's unusual, but adds great, meaty flavour.
Why would you want your ragu any thicker than he makes it without using a roux? I certainly wouldn't want to taste roux in a ragu like that.
OP
OP
SEEING-TO-BELIEVE
Head Chef
i see
pictonguy
Sous Chef
You can do anything you want when making food, but a traditional bolognaise does not have a roux. 
OP
OP
SEEING-TO-BELIEVE
Head Chef
does roux is only for thickening and deep flavor?
what can i use it for except for gravy?
what can i use it for except for gravy?
pictonguy
Sous Chef
Well, there's different applications and degrees of cooking for a roux and your right it can be for a "deeper flavor" if you mean darker, but the more you darken a roux the less effective it becomes as a thickener.
Traditionally and as an example a darker roux is used for Espagnole sauce which is one of the "Mother Sauces" of French cooking which is made from a basic beef or veal stock which then go on to make many sauces and beef bourginon and demi glace would be a good examples of that.
If you make what's called a "blond roux" which is cooked less and as the name implies is not as dark and traditionally used for 2 fairly well known application which are Béchamel sauce which is a white sauce use for cream sauces like mornay sauce, soubise and nantua sauce made from milk or other diary. The other popular blond base sauce is called a Veloute sauce which uses a stock and used for sauces like Bercy and Cardinal.
All of these basic sauces are Mother Sauces of French cuisine. Derivatives are only limited by your imagination.
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larry_stewart
Master Chef
I make a dark roux to add to my mushroom barley soup primarily for flavor, and a little bit for the thickening. I also may add it to stews for similar reasons .
OP
OP
SEEING-TO-BELIEVE
Head Chef
coolWell, there's different applications and degrees of cooking for a roux and your right it can be for a "deeper flavor" if you mean darker, but the more you darken a roux the less effective it becomes as a thickener.
Traditionally and as an example a darker roux is used for Espagnole sauce which is one of the "Mother Sauces" of French cooking which is made from a basic beef or veal stock which then go on to make many sauces and beef bourginon and demi glace would be a good examples of that.
If you make what's called a "blond roux" which is cooked less and as the name implies is not as dark and traditionally used for 2 fairly well known application which are Béchamel sauce which is a white sauce use for cream sauces like mornay sauce, soubise and nantua sauce made from milk or other diary. The other popular blond base sauce is called a Veloute sauce which uses a stock and used for sauces like Bercy and Cardinal.
All of these basic sauces are Mother Sauces of French cuisine. Derivatives are only limited by your imagination.
i want to ask
why the darker the color the less thickening it is?
can i put semi dark roux in chicken soup?
pictonguy
Sous Chef
2 good examples. I just made a beef stew and used a roux to thicken. Sometimes you can remove part of the solids in a soup or stew and puree and add back in to thicken the overall quantity idfsomeone is gluten or wheat intolerant or on a low carb diet.
pictonguy
Sous Chef
It involves a pretty complicated scientific answer so I'll just say that when flour is heated in fat the structure, lets call it a chain, is then broken into many smaller chains and eventually into individual links which on their own are not as strong (effective) as the whole chain. Also, especially high heat, is basically the beginning of the breakdown and decomposition of all matter. Basically what we have is a molecule that is smaller, with some damage and less effective, I hope that helps.
Like I said, you can do and add anything to cooking, so yes you can add a dark roux to a chicken soup. Would your grandmother do it, is probably a good proxy to whether you should or not.
It could also be a soup made from the roasted and darkened bones with the addition of caramelized vegetables that results in a dark more complex chicken broth that then can be made into a soup and a thicker viscosity might be desirable if a lot of different ingredients like potato, or a grain like rice or barley and assorted veg where when thickened with a roux, would be considered complimentary and you could certainly use a dark roux.
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Chicken livers in bolognese don't make it taste like chicken liver. They just add an umami depth to the taste. I came up with a copycat version of a bolognese that I saw made in a very successful NYC Italian restaurant as a weekend only special. It has 6 meats in it, ground beef and turkey, Italian sausage, bacon, chicken thighs and livers, plus a mirepoix, tomatoes and various spices/herbs, and wine. It takes 2 days to make, as it sits overnight in the refrigerator to make defatting it easier, plus has a long cooking time. It also makes a tremendous amount of sauce, which is good as we portion and freeze. The restaurant makes fresh tagliatelli to go with. It's also very thick when done just from the cooking process alone.
ETA: Just found a picture.
ETA: Just found a picture.
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Soups, gumbo, various other sauces other than gravy, like cheese sauce as the most common.
pictonguy
Sous Chef
I find it strange that in America many image's of pasta sauces are added as a topping on pasta as opposed to be mixed in with the sauce to allow for absorption. My SO wants it this way, and I have to make her plate first before I combine mine.
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