Taste in bread

[CharlieD]

100 ml water is 100 grams. Not 84 grams, same with milk. But, as far as bread goes, personally i do not like milk base bread, but that is just me. Second i have a question. What flavor is missing, or what flavor would you like to see/taste?

 

[pepperhead212]

I rarely put milk in bread, but when I do, I usually use dried milk. Partly because I also rarely have plain milk on hand - I always have some buttermilk and yogurt in the fridge, but that's what I do with the milk, when I get it. The other reason I use the dried milk is something I learned in my early days of bread baking - using plain milk in yeast bread will break down the gluten in the dough, and it won't rise as well, but if you scald the milk (something they tell you to do in a lot of old recipes, but didn't say why!), then cool it, before using it, it won't do this. The scalding deactivates the whey protein - what causes the problem with the gluten - and the usual dried milk is done with high heat, so using that is like scalding the milk. The curing of the milk, when making buttermilk or yogurt, also makes it OK for the gluten, plus helps the flavor!

 

[blissful]

I bought this beautiful sifter for flour. Just like my old fashion grandmother used. I sifted flour 3 or 4 times while it lived in my flour canister. I kept it there a few years, obviously just taking up space. I took it out and set it on my counter, also to take up space. Unless you might sift some kind of light very fine flour into fluffy egg whites for a type of cake, I'm imagining making a cake, I can't imagine that I would bother with a sifter anymore. Or you could use it to sift confectioners sugar if was a little lumpy. Or you could use it to sift out chaff from seeds. There are probably more uses for sifters.

 

[gerardj]

I rarely put milk in bread, but when I do, I usually use dried milk. Partly because I also rarely have plain milk on hand - I always have some buttermilk and yogurt in the fridge, but that's what I do with the milk, when I get it. The other reason I use the dried milk is something I learned in my early days of bread baking - using plain milk in yeast bread will break down the gluten in the dough, and it won't rise as well, but if you scald the milk (something they tell you to do in a lot of old recipes, but didn't say why!), then cool it, before using it, it won't do this. The scalding deactivates the whey protein - what causes the problem with the gluten - and the usual dried milk is done with high heat, so using that is like scalding the milk. The curing of the milk, when making buttermilk or yogurt, also makes it OK for the gluten, plus helps the flavor!

acid interferes with gluten, scalding milk converts the lactic acid to simple sugar.
if you plan on overnight proof you don't need to scald. ( as in brioche).

On sifting flour, cake batter is just measure, mix and bake whereas bread almost always needs adjusting during the mix because it depends on and is affected by water hydration.
Theres very little water in cakes, being fat based they don't rely on hydration by water and the batter will hardly be affected by the moisture in flour.
Sifting flour is important when folding flour into sponge to prevent clumping.
Mixing flour into a fat/sugar batter, sifting isn't needed as the batter rubs any clumping out, but it doesn't harm to sift either way.

 

[dragnlaw]

I knew there had to be a reason for scalding milk in so many recipes. It is so sad that they never gave a reason why!

 

[gerardj]

I knew there had to be a reason for scalding milk in so many recipes. It is so sad that they never gave a reason why!

they probably don't know, otherwise they'd be milk splaining to sound clever.
i just googled it, too much science and not enough common sense in all the answers.

You can demonstrate it to yourself by drinking cold milk and comparing to scalded milk, the scalded is just plain sweeter.

nuff said for now. having a little cardiac episode here.

 

[dragnlaw]

I used to drink hot milk all the time, just thought the taste difference was 'cold' often masks flavours.
Plus being lactose intolerant - lactose free milk taste sweet as is!

Edit:
and no, they probably didn't know the scientific reasons, but the old ones who figured it out - probably made a lot more bread than either you or I will ever do and they figured it out for a reason. Our ancestors were really not stupid you know.

 

[gerardj]

I used to drink hot milk all the time, just thought the taste difference was 'cold' often masks flavours.
Plus being lactose intolerant - lactose free milk taste sweet as is!

Edit:
and no, they probably didn't know the scientific reasons, but the old ones who figured it out - probably made a lot more bread than either you or I will ever do and they figured it out for a reason. Our ancestors were really not stupid you know.

View attachment 67424

our ancesters, even in the stone age, were really smart , if they were stupid we wouldn't exist today.

i don't think the chemical description explains much of anything in a useful way.
thats why i don't find test kitchens very useful, its not an intellectual endeavor, baking cannot be "figured out" by peering into the chemical bonds of ingredients.
Its like trying to deduce the meaning of printed text based upon the chemistry of the ink and the paper, per the useful expression "can't see the forest for the trees".
Its not bottom up, its top down.

 

[dragnlaw]

Well, I certainly don't agree at all! The more one understands about why something happens, even rudimentary reasons, the more one is liable to understand what possibly went wrong or could go wrong or be able to tell if a recipe is bogus or if it is genius!
Go back and read your own post #44 - you explain very well and pretty clearly what's happening, yeah?
Science and common sense have an awful lot in common!

 

[gerardj]

einstein had a funny quip,
"not everything that can be counted matters and not everything that matters can be counted."

 

[GotGarlic]

You guys are talking past each other. Gerard, you explained in a straightforward way why scalding milk makes a difference. People don't need to know the chemical equation that describes it in order to understand the process.

 

[dragnlaw]

Exactly!

 

[CharlieD]

Wait a minute. How did question about taste of bread become an argument?
To begin with, taste is very personal.

 

[Semon]

I didn't realize it was an argument.
Just a hole lot of info.

 

[Semon]

CharlieD​

What part of mn are you from?
Long time ago I lived in Orr

 

[CharlieD]

CharlieD​

What part of mn are you from?
Long time ago I lived in Orr

twin cities

 

[Semon]

I in St. Paul on Dayton and Dunlap for a while and also Como Ave before moving to Orr.
Have a good new year.
Lee
PS I can remember when the first Micky D came to St.Paul on University Ave.

 

[KatyCooks]

Bread doesn't taste of VERY much. But when you slather it, warm, with salted butter.... it doesn't need much else!

 

[CharlieD]

I in St. Paul on Dayton and Dunlap for a while and also Como Ave before moving to Orr.
Have a good new year.
Lee
PS I can remember when the first Micky D came to St.Paul on University Ave.

That definitely was before my time