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Old 02-22-2008, 02:13 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Chopstix View Post
At a dinner, my girlfriend served her guest durian (an exotic tropical fruit) that's been frozen for at least 6 months in her no-frost freezer. The guest was the only one who partook of the durian. There was no noticeable deterioration in the fruit's texture or smell. .
I'm noit sure how you could tell that durian had gone bad by smalling it ...

I suspect the durian was contaminated before it was frozen. Like GB says, if it was ok before it was frozen, it will be ok when thawed. With chicken and salmonella, the bacteria doesn't grow in the freezer and is killed through proper cooking.
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Old 02-22-2008, 02:14 PM   #52
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It may be refreshing to have a "questionable pizza" thread as opposed to poultry.
"Toss The Dough?"





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Old 02-22-2008, 02:50 PM   #53
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It would get me in less trouble than a salad anyway.....
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Old 02-22-2008, 05:13 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Chopstix View Post
Mozart, my cautionary tale above about the durian might hopefully give you something to think about.
Chopstix,

There is no basis for believing that food can become unsafe while frozen. However, freezing doesn't necessarily kill bacteria and will not usually destabilize toxins.

So whatever is on the food when it goes in the freezer will come out on the food when it leaves the freezer.
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Old 02-22-2008, 11:23 PM   #55
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Jeekinz, I love your avatar. Everytime I look at it, I can't help but smile.
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Old 02-22-2008, 11:28 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by mozart View Post
Chopstix,

There is no basis for believing that food can become unsafe while frozen. However, freezing doesn't necessarily kill bacteria and will not usually destabilize toxins.

So whatever is on the food when it goes in the freezer will come out on the food when it leaves the freezer.
This is kinda case in point to what you are saying:
Creatures frozen for 32,000 years still alive - LiveScience - MSNBC.com
If they can last that long.... 2 years is a short 'nap' for them!
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Old 02-23-2008, 01:22 AM   #57
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They did narrow down the cause of food poisoning to the durian. And it was frozen leftover durian that didn't cause anyone any problem before. Maybe it got contaminated right before freezing, who knows? But I don't think that same durian could have caused as much damage after three days in the freezer as after 6 months.

Sorry folks, I've even had well-wrapped frozen cookie dough deteriorate on me in the freezer over time.

Jennyemma, LOL to your point about the durian smell. I've grown to love durian myself now. As long as you eat it frozen, the smell is deadened and you can appreciate its taste and custardy texture complemented by its amazing aroma which can actually bring you to an indescribable gustatory high, as opposed to eating unfrozen durian where its overpowering smell assails your nostrils before you even get a chance to put it in your mouth -- warding off most people, which is a shame. :-)
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Old 02-23-2008, 08:42 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Chopstix View Post

Sorry folks, I've even had well-wrapped frozen cookie dough deteriorate on me in the freezer over time.
No one is saying that this is not true as far as the quality goes, but your cookie dough was no less safe to eat after being in the freezer that long.
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Old 02-23-2008, 08:44 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Chopstix View Post
They did narrow down the cause of food poisoning to the durian. And it was frozen leftover durian that didn't cause anyone any problem before. Maybe it got contaminated right before freezing, who knows? But I don't think that same durian could have caused as much damage after three days in the freezer as after 6 months.

It is not possible to tell what food caused a food poisoning in a single case unless some of the food was left over and tested. In cases where multiple people get sick, the health department will do an "attack rate" which is a chart with the names across the top and the foods consumed by everyone at the meal along the side. They then put an X in each food consumed for each person. Unusually, one food will be checked close to 100 percent of the time for the sick folks and not checked for those who did not become ill. That becomes the suspect food. Also, the exact organism causing the food poisoning is important in helping to determine the food.

In larger cases, it is not unusual for someone to become sick that didn't eat the suspect food. That is coincidence. Or someone to eat the food and not become ill. That is usually eating a smaller amount, a less contaminated amount or a very good immune system for that particular organism.

In a single case, without testing and without confirmation of the organism through a stool sample, the doctor is likely just making his best guess.
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Old 02-23-2008, 10:31 AM   #60
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I appreciate and enjoy this exchange. I think on top of the food safety issue, there is the intrinsic element of personal instinct that must be considered. I am certainly not arguing the science behind the discussion.

In the end, whether some food is theoretically safe or not (and the vacuum-packed 2-yr old chicken probably is), we will all follow our own instincts of what to put or not to put in our mouth. My instincts are to trust what my brain tells me about some food, plus heed my experience, and all my senses, including my sense of self-preservation.

Even if one part of my brain says that something is probably (note that this means less than 100%!) safe to eat, another part knows that it's been frozen two long years and therefore anything could have happened within that time (power outage, multiple defrosting/refreezing, and what not). My brain also tells me not to take chances based on past experience (my friend's frozen durian!), especially not over a piddling amount of money. Especially if either the smell or taste or texture or appearance of the food is off, even if it's still probably safe I'd toss it, if only because I can't possibly put it in my mouth anyway.

:-)
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