Chile Questions

[Citizen Bob]

Or Diana Kennedy!

Why read books when I have you guys and gals to give me personalized expert advice.

OK, we have settled on that recipe with the double ancho plus the square of unsweetened chocolate (*) and no paprika.

I am off to make a batch of chili right now.

---

(*) I have never eaten unsweetened chocolate, and am I glad. That stuff is horrible tasting right out of the box. And here I thought chocolate was naturally sweet.

 

[marmalady]

Chocolate is not naturally sweet, tho the Aztecs made a drink of it unsweetened; was said to give them long life and vitality!

Jenny, you're right - forgot about Diana!

Bob, I only recommended the books because you seemed like you wanted to learn more about chiles in depth, and these are the 'masters'. Southwestern chili variations, and 'Tex-Mex' chili variations, all evolved over time from the sauces and moles of Mexico - why not go to the source?

 

[Citizen Bob]

Bob, I only recommended the books because you seemed like you wanted to learn more about chiles in depth, and these are the 'masters'. Southwestern chili variations, and 'Tex-Mex' chili variations, all evolved over time from the sauces and moles of Mexico - why not go to the source?

I appreciate the references but I am into this only for the chili and once I have the recipe figured out, that's about all I will be needing. Try as I might, I cannot get into Tex Mex. I suggested a tamale pie to my wife the other day and she said she can come up with a lot more interesting dishes for the calories. She does not like capsicum at all, and I am not a big fan either.

If I can get this chili recipe to work, then I will be quite pleased with the effort.

 

[GB]

Bob I think marmalady was only making mention of those references for you to learn a lot about the chilies you are asking about. These people know more about these things than most people and have a lot to offer. Your chili recipe could greatly benefit from learning about different types of peppers and these are the people to teach that. Just food for thought

 

[Citizen Bob]

Bob I think marmalady was only making mention of those references for you to learn a lot about the chilies you are asking about. These people know more about these things than most people and have a lot to offer. Your chili recipe could greatly benefit from learning about different types of peppers and these are the people to teach that. Just food for thought

Then I will have a look to see what they say about chili recipes.

 

[Citizen Bob]

Whoops! Too many books for me to decide. Here's what amazon.com lists:

Mexican Everyday
by Rick Bayless

Mexico One Plate At A Time
by Rick Bayless

Rick Bayless's Mexican Kitchen
by Rick Bayless

Authentic Mexican
by Rick Bayless

The Essential Cuisines of Mexico
by Diana Kennedy

From My Mexican Kitchen
by Diana Kennedy

My Mexico
by Diana Kennedy

The Food and Life of Oaxaca
by Zarela Martínez

Zarela's Veracruz
by Zarela Martinez

Food from My Heart
by Zarela Martínez

Which do you all recommend?

 

[marmalady]

Bob, I understand you just want to make chili; but - you're asking pretty detailed questions about the types of chiles to use, and how best to prepare them, and in what quantities. Hence, the suggestion to do a little research. IMHO, all of cooking is research; sometimes I'll 10 cookbooks and a google page out to find what I'm looking for, or a blend of ideas.

My faves?

From Zarela Martinez, Food and Life of Oaxaca, and Food from my heart.

From Rick Bayless, Mexican Kitchen and Authentic Mexican. For Diana's books, I'll wait for Jenny's opinion, as I'm not familiar with all of them.

I'd also suggest, since you don't want particularly to make a study of Mexican food in general, to see if any of these books are available at your local library. Cheaper!

Oh - and I think 'chili' is a Tex-Mex recipe, derived from the moles and sopa from Mexico.

 

[jennyema]

I have Rick B's "Mexican Everyday" and "Mexico One Plate At A Time" and I use them both a lot. Since M-lady likes the other two, that will give me an excuse to buy them!!

I have "The Essential Cuisines of Mexico" and "From My Mexican Kitchen"
by Diana Kennedy. The latter is pretty advaced and detailed with much discussion of ingredients and technique. Many of the ingredients are impossible to find even at my great Hi-Lo hispanic market. So, I'd probably recommend the former, which is more recipe-driven and gives info on the various regional cusines.

 

[marmalady]

Jenny, you have to look at Zarela's books! Her Oaxaca book is chock full of the most beautiful pictures from the region, and the history and authenticity can't be beat! Had the opportunity to eat at her restaurant and meet her; absolutely charming woman, and food was outstanding!

I also assisted at a series of cooking classes with Rick Bayless, and he's just awesome! He actually brought masa dough, chiles, and something else I can't remember from Chicago, because he thought we wouldn't be able to find it in NJ! But his class was superb and the dishes prepared were just wonderful - not to mention the techniques learned!

Bob - Sorry for the thread hijack!

 

[Citizen Bob]

Bob, I understand you just want to make chili; but - you're asking pretty detailed questions about the types of chiles to use, and how best to prepare them, and in what quantities. Hence, the suggestion to do a little research. IMHO, all of cooking is research; sometimes I'll 10 cookbooks and a google page out to find what I'm looking for, or a blend of ideas.

That's pretty much how I do it, including consulting specialty forums like this one.

Regarding your favorite books, 3 of them were available at the Houston Public Library

Food from my Heart, Zarela Martinez
Mexican Kitchen, Rick Bayless
Authentic Mexican, Rick Bayless

I could order the 4th from Interlibrary Loan, but this is enough for now.

if any of these books are available at your local library. Cheaper!

Indeed! I rarely buy books anymore.

Oh - and I think 'chili' is a Tex-Mex recipe

Yes, chili was invented in Texas. Legend has it that it was a trail mix. Gebhardt made a significant contribution when he invented chili powder, or at least when he commercialized it.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I made the chili last night and it is the best I have ever made. Thanks for all the advice.

I am posting the final recipe as a separate post so it is on the record. I like to tinker with recipes as I go along, but at some point the tinkering must stop.

 

[Citizen Bob]

This recipe was created in collaboration with the experts on this forum. It is the best chili I have ever made.

Citizen Bob's Chili
----------------
2 lb beef-pork mix (2:1)
2 medium onions diced
6 cloves garlic
6 T. Citizen Bob's Chili Powder (see below)
1/2 lg. can crushed tomatoes
1/2 lg. can diced tomatoes
1 qt. beef broth
1 square unsweetened chocolate
1 T. kosher salt

This makes about 6 qts. so you will need a large crock pot. Cook on high for 4 hours after it gets hot (usually 2 more hours) or cook for 6-8 hours on low (after it gets hot). I like to cook on high for at least 2 hours (after it gets hot) and then on low for 4 more hours, or when it tastes done. Don't dry it out too much - you want it to be slightly watery like a thick soup.

Mix 4 lb ground chuck with 2 lb ground pork shoulder (available freshly ground at a Chinese market) and make up into 2 lb bags for the freezer. Brown meat then add onions and cook until onions are translucent. Do not overcook onions or they will turn into mush in the crock pot.

You can use a mix of crushed and diced tomatoes or use only crushed in double amount. I use canned tomatoes from Sam's Club because they are very cheap (large can, 102 wt. oz, $2.18).

I also put 7 oz. of angel hair (half a package) in to make Chili Mac. I grew up in the Midwest where that was the tradition. I used to put beans in chili, but no more because it changes the taste too much. Texas Red is chili without beans.

Citizen Bob's Chili Powder
------------------------
2 T. cascabel powder
4 T. ancho powder
2 t. chipotle powder
2 T. cumin powder
1 T. garlic powder
1 T. Mexican oregano

Roast 3 of each chile to get the volumes indicated above. Preheat oven to 300°F. Remove stems and seeds from all the chiles. Cut each chile in half with scissors and flatten the pieces. Put the chiles in a single layer on a baking sheet and roast for about 10 minutes until they crack like potato chips. Toast the cumin seeds for 5 minutes in a 300F oven. Grind chiles and cumin seeds separately in a coffee mill, then blend according to the recipe above.

 

[GB]

Great job Bob!!!

 

[jennyema]

I am really glad it came out well. Looks like you got the seasoning just right for your taste!

 

[mudbug]

great thread, everyone. Perfect example of how fine and useful this site is.

 

[marmalady]

Great1 Glad it turned out the way you like it! And now - just to give you a little more food for thought - here's a chili recipe based on ingredients in a traditional mole, that won a prize in a NYC chili contest!

First,

RED CHILE PUREE

​

3oz.mixed dried chiles (I use ancho, guajillo, and pasilla)
1 cup orange juice
1 bottle dark beer
1T pumpkin seeds
1tsp. cumin seeds
1T sliced almonds
½ tsp. Chinese 5spice powder
pinch allspice
pinch cinnamon
1T Sherry vinegar
3 cloves garlic minced
1 shallot minced
salt and pepper to taste

Steep chiles in orange juice and beer til softened, about 20 minutes. Toast seeds and spices til aromatic. Blend chiles in batches with other ingredients; you may need to add water in order for it to liquify. Taste for salt; BE CAREFUL; THIS STUFF IS EXTREMELY TOXIC! Makes about a quart; can be frozen in small batches.

Use for base for Buffalo chili, or other chilis, or enchilada sauce.

Then..........................to make the chili,

BUFFALO CHILI

​

2lbs. cubed Buffalo or beef
1pt. Red Chili puree*
1 large white onion
4 cloves garlic minced
1cup canned whole tomatoes
2tsp. dry oregano
1tsp. rosemary
1tsp. tarragon
¼ cup espresso
1T creamy peanut butter
1T cocoa powder
1 corn tortilla
salt and pepper to taste

Place cubed meat in red chili puree and marinate overnight. Saute onions and garlic until soft. Remove meat from marinade, add to pan and saute til browned. Add remainder of puree to pan; crush tomatoes by hand directly into pan. Add herbs. Bring to a simmer, cover and place in a 325 oven; stir every ½ hour to prevent browning on bottom of pan. Remove from oven in approximately 2 hours, or when meat is very tender. Put chili back on stove, add peanut butter, cocoa powder, espresso and stir gently. Tear tortilla into small pieces and add to chili stirring gently; the tortilla will dissolve and thicken the chili. Season w/salt and pepper.

 

[Citizen Bob]

Great1 Glad it turned out the way you like it! And now - just to give you a little more food for thought - here's a chili recipe based on ingredients in a traditional mole, that won a prize in a NYC chili contest!

Wow - that is some recipe. It must take all day to make it.

3oz.mixed dried chiles (I use ancho, guajillo, and pasilla)

I assume that is 3 weight ounces (wt. oz.) But what proportion are the 3 chiles?

I used the following:

-----------------Weight Volume
3 cascabel chiles - 9.0 g. - 2 T.
3 ancho chiles -- 21.6 g. - 4 T.
3 chipotle chiles - 4.0 g. - 2 t.
---------Total - 34.6 g. - 6 2/3 T.

which is a bit over 1 wt. oz. (Weights and Volumes are after roasting).

I chose 3 typical chiles of each variety. I added 4 T. of additional spices for a grand total of 10 2/3 T. Then I used 6 T. of that powder in the chili, which works out to about 2 chiles each. The heat is moderate - it's definitely there but not overpowering - like about 1/2 t. of cayene.

1 corn tortilla
Tear tortilla into small pieces and add to chili stirring gently; the tortilla will dissolve and thicken the chili.

I will have to remember this so I can thicken my chili just a bit. I don't like to boil away the liquid too much or it tastes too strong.

 

[marmalady]

I'm afraid I don't get nearly that compulsive about how much of each chile - but it probably worked out to be 2/3 ancho, and 1/3 a mix of the others. Note that the chiles aren't dried and ground up, but steeped whole and then made into the puree in that state.

If you make up the puree in advance, the actual chili itself isn't difficult to put together.

 

[Citizen Bob]

I'm afraid I don't get nearly that compulsive about how much of each chile

I am a physicist by profession (retired) so I naturally take measurements, especially when I am working up a new recipe. Part of the fun of a new recipe is in the quantification of the ingredients. It gives me a baseline from which to work.

Also, it is easier to communicate with others when the quantities are specified. For example, one person on this forum recommended I cut back from 1 T. of chipotle to 1 t., which turned out to be very helpful in terms of the heat. If I had used the original 1 T. the result would have been far too hot for my tastes.

My wife likes to eyeball recipes sometimes and the result is wide variation in taste from batch to batch. I always measure recipes, even those I have been using for years, so if I decide to vary the recipe I will know how to duplicate it.

As Pythagoras said, "Everything is numbers."

 

[GB]

Bob I can completely understand why you measure everything and you are right that it helps when passing recipes to others. It can be hard to share a recipe when the amounts are just guessed at.

That being said, measuring in cooking and measuring in the lab are two totally different animals. The reason I say this is simple. Lets take the 1 T of chipotle to 1 t of chipotle example. The next time you make this recipe the chpotles you get could very well have a different amount of heat than your last batch. While this time 1 T would have been too hot, next time might be a different story.

It is often said that cooking is an art while baking is a science.

I am not saying your way is wrong. Far from it. I think you have found what works and is enjoyable for you and that is what cooking is all about. Way to go!

 

[Citizen Bob]

Bob I can completely understand why you measure everything and you are right that it helps when passing recipes to others. It can be hard to share a recipe when the amounts are just guessed at.

That being said, measuring in cooking and measuring in the lab are two totally different animals. The reason I say this is simple. Lets take the 1 T of chipotle to 1 t of chipotle example. The next time you make this recipe the chpotles you get could very well have a different amount of heat than your last batch. While this time 1 T would have been too hot, next time might be a different story.

It is often said that cooking is an art while baking is a science.

I am not saying your way is wrong. Far from it. I think you have found what works and is enjoyable for you and that is what cooking is all about. Way to go!

This is one of those existential questions: "To measure or not to measure". While I am prone to measure, I certainly am not obsessed with doing it all the time. Many times I will season to taste to make up for variations in products.

However, there is a good case to be made for cooks who have a written recipe to refer to in case they have forgotten something. This is especially true of recipes that are sensitive to slight variations in ingredients.

We have collected over two reams of paper which contain recipes we like - that's 1,000 recipes. There is no way I can possibly keep track of all those recipes by memory alone. So I have no choice but to quantify the ingredients for future reference.