"Discover Cooking, Discuss Life."

Go Back   Discuss Cooking - Cooking Forums > General Cooking Information > Cookware and Accessories > Appliances
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 12-30-2006, 04:13 PM   #1
Assistant Cook
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8
Angry KitchenAid Let Down


Has anyone else experienced this?
I asked for and got a KitchenAid Pro 5 for Christmas. It claimed 12 cups of flour power! Yesterday I made bread. I just couldn't wait. I was preparing 2 loaves - a 3 pounder and a 1 1/2 pound loaf. The recipe called for 4 1/2 cups Bread flour and 4 1/2 cups All purpose flour ( between the preferment and final dough). That's 9 cups of flour.

I began the mixing process and within a minute the mixer stalled. I'd wait for it to reset to start it up again and it would stall within seconds. I repeated this process a number of times and finally pulled the dough out and kneaded by hand.

Today I called KitchenAid to ask if there was an issue and was told it would handle 12 cups of White All Purpose flour as used in the recipes in the book that come with the mixer. Otherwise the 12 cup Flour Power mixer would only handle 6 cups of specialty flour! What is Specialty Flour? Any flour that is not White All Purpose flour as used in the book that comes with the mixer.... And you don't get the book until you buy the mixer.

I was told that right on the box it says 6 3/4 one-pound Basic White Bread Loaves*. Well to me basic white bread is what I made. Only flour, salt, yeast and water. On the box it also says "Flour Power indicates the maximum amount of all-purpose flour a stand mixer can mix effectively." Great, I bought mine online and never saw the box.

This is the link to KitchenAid's page for my mixer http://www.kitchenaid.com/catalog/product.jsp?src=Stand+Mixers&cat=310&prod=487
Click on the 6 of 6 Loaves and look under the 12 cup column. Would expect the mixer to handle 12 cups of Bread Flour? Would you expect it wouldn't?

I find their marketing to be deceptive and purposely vague. And by the way, I found nothing in the book that said mine would only do 6 cups of flour other than All-Purpose. Beware, if you have been thinking of a KitchenAid mixer and you use anything other than AP flour, CUT THE FLOUR POWER IN HALF.

If you feel KitchenAid is misleading the consumer send an email through their system at http://www.kitchenaid.com/custserv/contact_form.jsp

Thanks, and let me know if you have experienced this lower capacity.

Crusty Old Crumb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2006, 04:15 PM   #2
Executive Chef
 
Michelemarie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Suburb of Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,614
Send a message via Yahoo to Michelemarie
I'm sorry CoC - you must be dissappointed.
__________________
Michele Marie
Michelemarie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2006, 05:51 PM   #3
Certified Pretend Chef
 
Andy M.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 46,646
It's unfortunate and infuriating that you have come up against this issue after the fact. The KA info is not specific enough. You would expect to be using bread flour to make bread.

If you had been ab le to read the box in a store, would that have raised enough of a question in your mind to make a phone call?
__________________
"If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe." -Carl Sagan
Andy M. is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2006, 05:52 PM   #4
Head Chef
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Boston area
Posts: 2,488
Yes, I would have had the same expectations as you did. And I would have been crushed. Can you send it back and get a more powerful one?

I love my KA mixer. I have a Professional 6, but I've never made bread dough in it. I do make a TON of cookie dough in it, all at once, but I've always used AP flour.

I have never used bread flour, so don't know what the difference is.

Also, what is "preferment"?
QSis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2006, 11:20 PM   #5
Assistant Cook
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8
Box Info

Andy
Being the typical consumer I don't think the info on the box would have implied enough doubt that I would have researched it futher. "After the fact" research didn't turn up anything on the net. I do wonder what a phone call to KA as a potential buyer would turn up.

Bread Flour doesn't weigh twice that of the same measure of AP flour. They are very similar in weight to volume ratios. I would suspect it would be the higher ratio of water used in artisan bread recipes then the flour itself. Could that be?
Crusty Old Crumb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2006, 11:42 PM   #6
Certified Pretend Chef
 
Andy M.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 46,646
Bread flour is a higher protein flour that produces more gluten in the dough than AP flour. Gluten is what makes breads chewier and tougher. As a result, there would be a good deal more resistence to the dough hook and motor.
__________________
"If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe." -Carl Sagan
Andy M. is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2006, 11:52 PM   #7
Assistant Cook
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8
QSis
In my conversation with KA they told me none of their mixers would handle 12 cups of bread flour. It was odd that after asking why my new mixer wouldn't handle 9 cups of flour when it was advertised it would handle 12 and being told it would only handle 6 cups of bread flour - less than 0ne minute into the conversation - I was offered a replacement of the same mixer. Will it do 12 cups of bread flour? I asked. No, only 6. was the reply.

After pressing for one that would handle 12 cups of bread flour they finally offered to buy it back. I told them it wasn't good enough. That was the end of our conversation.

About Pre-ferments.
They are basically bread doughs that have a long rise in a very cool environment - fridge - that allow for flavor and texture development. Usually made the day before the pre-fermented dough is added to the dough being mixed on baking day. The come in two forms - dry and wet. Don't confuse them with sourdough starter.

Hope that helps
Crusty Old Crumb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2006, 11:57 PM   #8
Head Chef
 
skilletlicker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 1,977
CoC, I own that same mixer and am very satisfied with it but I have to say that I think you are right in calling the linked page misleading.

The whole "flour power" concept probably sounded pretty good to some marketing guy who has never made a loaf of bread.
__________________
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” John Stuart Mill, 1867.
skilletlicker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2006, 12:02 AM   #9
Assistant Cook
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy M.
Bread flour is a higher protein flour that produces more gluten in the dough than AP flour. Gluten is what makes breads chewier and tougher. As a result, there would be a good deal more resistence to the dough hook and motor.
Thanks Andy,
Yes, I can see that. I guess any gluten building additives would do the same to AP flour also.

It looks as if I'm going to have to do dough for my larger loaves in stages.
Crusty Old Crumb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2006, 12:06 AM   #10
Assistant Cook
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8
SkilletLicker
Yes, I agree with that!

Have you done bread flour dough in yours and ,if so, how large a load?
Crusty Old Crumb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2006, 12:35 AM   #11
Head Chef
 
skilletlicker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 1,977
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusty Old Crumb
Have you done bread flour dough in yours and ,if so, how large a load?
I only make one loaf at time but not because of the machine's capacity. I think 6 cups is the correct upper limit.
__________________
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” John Stuart Mill, 1867.
skilletlicker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2006, 12:40 AM   #12
Head Chef
 
skilletlicker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 1,977
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusty Old Crumb
After pressing for one that would handle 12 cups of bread flour they finally offered to buy it back. I told them it wasn't good enough.
Just out of curiosity, why not?
__________________
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” John Stuart Mill, 1867.
skilletlicker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2006, 01:35 AM   #13
Assistant Cook
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8
Fair question SkilletLicker,
With the advertising and marketing of KitchenAid promising a 12 cup capacity or Flour Power and my purchasing the mixer for a given price we entered into a contract. Their promise was deceptive and the limited capacity was not made known until payment had been exchanged. I expect KA to exchange my mixer for one that will do or come closer to 12 cups for the price I paid.

After further digging this evening I found KA had a known issue with their mixers that has been rectified on some of their models. I need to find if that has been changed on my model and ser #. The updated all metal gear case was covered with a low grade plastic housing that would crack and melt under stress and heat. Some newer units have a metal housing, some don't.

It is a design flaw that they are aware of and should have recalled.

The mixers will be fine for 99% of users, but it seems that doing bread dough seriously shortens the life of the mixers.

I want the company to be aware that they can't hide the mixer limitations and over promise. David and Golith, I know, but as consumers isn't that what we should do?
Crusty Old Crumb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2006, 01:48 AM   #14
Executive Chef
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: SE Pennsylvania
Posts: 4,655
glad to know the limits of my machine...got a 6 model. doubt I would do more than 2 loaves at a time so should be ok.
Robo410 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2006, 02:34 AM   #15
Head Chef
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Illinois/USA
Posts: 1,343
Why are you making so much bread on the same day?
StirBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2006, 02:44 AM   #16
Assistant Cook
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8
StirBlue
Only two loaves were prepared. An 18" 3 pound batard for a dinner party of 8. - all consumed - and a 1 1/2 pound bole for personal use the next day or two. Now gone
Crusty Old Crumb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2006, 03:15 AM   #17
Head Chef
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Illinois/USA
Posts: 1,343
Does that KA make very much noise? (when it's working) How does it compare to a bread machine?
I have seen several bread machines at a cooking consignment shop. I found a bread machine book at the library. It compared several brands and said that they are loud and turn out lopsided loaves. I had thought about buying three bread machines until I found out about the noise.
People are chunking those bread machines left and right. I guess that book may be right.
You may have guessed that they were cheap ($10 each). I wanted to make banana, pumpkin, etc breads.
StirBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2006, 03:18 AM   #18
Cook
 
Saltygreasybacon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 67
Beleive it or not I had the same problem with a bread making machine. Burned 2 of them out in a matter of days and the flour was the problem. I was using bread flour instead of AP flour and it was putting excessive strain on the motor and burning them out. I'm sure it's the same theory with the KA.
Saltygreasybacon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2006, 09:16 AM   #19
Sous Chef
 
subfuscpersona's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 562
KitchenAid complaint resources

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusty Old Crumb
After further digging this evening I found KA had a known issue with their mixers that has been rectified on some of their models. I need to find if that has been changed on my model and ser #. The updated all metal gear case was covered with a low grade plastic housing that would crack and melt under stress and heat. Some newer units have a metal housing, some don't....It is a design flaw that they are aware of and should have recalled...I want the company to be aware that they can't hide the mixer limitations and over promise. David and Golith, I know, but as consumers isn't that what we should do?
When I had my very old K5-A repaired at an authorized service center last year, the store owner mentioned the plastic gear housing in some of the newer models. He didn't think much of the quality of KA mixers manufactured by Whirlpool.

That said, the squeaky wheel gets the grease, so if you can't get satisfaction and you're willing to put some time and effort into complaining here are some ideas...

First, make copies of the ad so you have proof of the marketing claims - online advertising is easily changed.

Fill out the FTC's online Consumer Complaint form here

Fill out the Better Business Bureau's online complaint form here

Publicize your experience with this model on other cooking forums and baking newsgroups and keep a record of where you've posted.

Write a certified letter, return receipt requested, to Whirlpool's VP of Marketing, detailing your complaint and what you expect in terms of resolution. Mention any complaints you've already filed with other organizations, postings to forums, etc. Include the ad. CC your local state representative and the consumer complaints dept of your local district attorney's office. Here is the name and address:

W. Timothy Yaggi
Executive Vice President, Market Operations
Corporate Headquarters, Whirlpool Corporation
2000 North M-63
Benton Harbor, Michigan 49022

(For other top level Whirlpool executives, click here)

Good luck
subfuscpersona is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2006, 07:20 PM   #20
Assistant Cook
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8
Subfuscpersona,
Thanks for the info! I am gathering as much data as I can.
Crusty Old Crumb is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.