Pre-warming Rib Roast in hot water?

[grandhill]

I have discovered that I can a get remarkably tender large turkey by pre-warming it in hot water in a water tight bag for a few hours before placing in oven.
I am thinking about trying this with a standing rib roast. My idea is to seal it in bag, immerse in hot water for an hour or so to bring internal temperature to about 90 to 100 degrees F. Then, put it in a hot oven to brown the outside. Anyone have any ideas or experience with this? I do not want to spoil an expensive roast – or to ruin the Christmas dinner.

 

[Savannahsmoker]

Sounds like you are close to Sous Vide cooking.

 

[GotGarlic]

Hi and welcome to DC.

That's a very dangerous practice. You're holding food in the temperature range where bacteria grow quickly and can cause illness, especially with poultry.

I get tender, juicy turkey by roasting it the traditional way. I don't cook a lot of beef roasts, since there's only two of us, but I'm sure someone else will weigh in.

 

[grandhill]

Do not agree - 2 hours not a dangerous time

Although I do not know much about cooking, I do know something about microbiology. Bacteria have a lag time when put in a growth medium before they start growing. For most bacteria when placed in ideal growth medium, this is two or more hours. It certainly will be longer for bacteria that are starting at near freezing (refrigerator temp) and slowly warmed. I know that this fear of keeping any meat at room temp even an hour is very common, it is just not true.

 

[grandhill]

Not really Sous-vide

As I understand it, Sous-vide is cooking entirely in a water bath. I want to have the standard browned surface, so it needs to go into a hot oven. I thought that by pre-warming the interior I could braise the surface while still keeping the interior rare.

 

[GotGarlic]

Although I do not know much about cooking, I do know something about microbiology. Bacteria have a lag time when put in a growth medium before they start growing. For most bacteria when placed in ideal growth medium, this is two or more hours. It certainly will be longer for bacteria that are starting at near freezing (refrigerator temp) and slowly warmed. I know that this fear of keeping any meat at room temp even an hour is very common, it is just not true.

It's not a fear but knowledge on my part Do you have a source for this lag time?

 

[GotGarlic]

As I understand it, Sous-vide is cooking entirely in a water bath. I want to have the standard browned surface, so it needs to go into a hot oven. I thought that by pre-warming the interior I could braise the surface while still keeping the interior rare.

Braising is cooking the meat for a long time, partially submerged in liquid, at a low temperature.

I''ve never heard of pre-warming and I don't see any benefit to it. This sounds like a good method: http://www.delish.com/_mobile/recipefinder/paula-deens-famous-foolproof-rib-roast-recipe

 

[Rob Babcock]

You're basically doing "beer cooler sous vide". This works great with smaller cuts of meat but isn't ideal with a whole roast. It helps a lot of you have a way to create an airtight seal- that way, once you kill the bacteria on the surface it won't be re-contaminated later on.

Again, this isn't something I advocate but if you're going to do it, you're wise to immerse the entire roast in very hot water (close to boiling) for a minute or two first. This should kill any bacteria on the surface. It doesn't matter if you "overcook" it because in a very short time only the outside will get hot, the heat won't penetrate. You'll be finishing it in a hot oven anyways.

If you can seal it you're gonna be a lot safer; your technique should probably be limited to stuff you buy already sealed unless you have a sealer that can accommodate the large cut of meat you want to use.

 

[grandhill]

Source for lag time

Here is source for lag time of about 2 hours in salmonella:

Zombie Bacteria - Lag Phase In Salmonella

 

[jennyema]

A turkey for more than 2 hours is dangerous. And I don't think that "pre-warming" is the secret to tenderness.

A beef roast warming for an hour is probably ok.

 

[salt and pepper]

First let me say, a Prime Rib Roast should not need to be tenderized, after all its a tender cut of meat. If it is not frozen, season it over night in the refrigerator and take it out about an hour before cooking. Just let it get to room temp. I cook it at a fairly high temp, 450 degrees, until the internal temp reaches 125 to 130 degrees, then cover and let it rest in a large cooler for at least 15 minutes before serving.
Just a thought, bacteria grows fastest at room temp and will accelerate as time passes.

 

[pacanis]

Just to say, I've left a small, two-rib prime rib roast out on my counter in a warm house for 7+ hours and it was still 55F internal temp. You might be able to get a steak close to room temp in an hour or so, but not a roast.
I see a lot of recipes for roasts saying to take it out of the fridge an hour before cooking to "get it room temp" and I can only think they never actually checked the temperature. I just wanted to mention this. Unless my idea of room temp is too literal

 

[Andy M.]

There is some evidence that warming the roast to 'room temperature' makes no difference how it cooks.

 

[pacanis]

There is some evidence that warming the roast to 'room temperature' makes no difference how it cooks.

It might when using the "perfect prime rib" recipe. The one that calls for high temps at first, then turning the oven off for a a couple hours.

But other than that I have to agree. I don't even warm the ribs going into the smoker. I figure the longer it takes to warm them up, the better smoke ring they will get. (that whole, over 140F can't accept anymore smoke thing)

 

[salt and pepper]

There is some evidence that warming the roast to 'room temperature' makes no difference how it cooks.

I think the only difference is that it cooks more evenly and takes less time to reach internal temps. Not that its a big deal with a roast, but when cooking a thick steak it pays.

 

[CharlieD]

I am not as concern about bacteria and all, but i have never heard of this practice. Warming up meat to the room temperature maybe, definite maybe, but you are basically suggesting preheating the meat. Doubt it is the reason for tender result.

 

[grandhill]

The basic goal of most recipes is to uniformly heat the roast to about 130 degrees F without overcooking the outer layers. It occurred to me that if I raised the temp of the entire roast to about 90 degrees by immersion in hot water, then it would be easier to uniformly heat the entire roast to 130 in the oven. I still want to use the oven because I want the surface to be browned.
I agree with the Pacanis that just leaving the roast on the counter at room temp for a few hours as is recommended in most recipes still leaves the center cold and does not solve the problem.

 

[Andy M.]

I think you're wasting your time. When the warm roast goes in the oven, the outer surface of the roast is going to get really hot and the heat will transfer slowly through the roast towards the center. The center will always be the last to get done. Meanwhile, the outer surface is cooking more.

 

[CharlieD]

The basic goal of most recipes is to uniformly heat the roast to about 130 degrees F without overcooking the outer layers. It occurred to me that if I raised the temp of the entire roast to about 90 degrees by immersion in hot water, then it would be easier to uniformly heat the entire roast to 130 in the oven. I still want to use the oven because I want the surface to be browned.
I agree with the Pacanis that just leaving the roast on the counter at room temp for a few hours as is recommended in most recipes still leaves the center cold and does not solve the problem.

You sound so determent to do what you want that I do not understand why you even bother asking the question. Everybody is telling not to do it and you keep insisting. Just do what you think is good for you. You are not building an atomic reactor, it is just a roast.

 

[grandhill]

The heating of the outer surface depends on the time and temperature of the oven. If the center of the roast is starting at, say, 100 degrees, and the oven temperature is 300, then it will take about one third as long to raise the center to 130 compared to if the center is 35 degrees (refrigerator temp). In addition, the temperature of the roast should be much more uniform because of the reduced cooking time.