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Old 09-29-2006, 01:01 PM   #1
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Wink Pizza dough

Trying to tackle pizza - have Tyler Florence's recipe-- Question what flour would be comparable to 00 - I have all purpose, bread, and cake flour? Never been much of a baker, except cookies, brownies, and cakes !

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Old 09-29-2006, 01:14 PM   #2
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OO flour is a low protein Italian flour. You can buy its equivalent from the King Arthur website.

I'd just use AP flour. Don't use bread flour if you want to achieve the kind of crust OO flour would provide, as it has too much protein.
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Old 09-29-2006, 01:39 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jennyema
OO flour is a low protein Italian flour. You can buy its equivalent from the King Arthur website.

I'd just use AP flour. Don't use bread flour if you want to achieve the kind of crust OO flour would provide, as it has too much protein.
Thank you so very much !! Appreciate it !
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Old 09-29-2006, 01:45 PM   #4
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Barb,

I just found this from a pizza site: Use around 25% cake or pastry flour and 75% all purpose to mimic Italian "00 Flour"

Makes sense, gluten-wise
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Old 09-29-2006, 02:11 PM   #5
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I use all 3/4 all purpose and 1/4 bread flour, I don't know if tylers recipe says this, but be sure to bake the crust until it is slightly brown before you top the pizza. I didn't know that when I started making pizza and to me it makes all the difference.
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Old 09-29-2006, 02:59 PM   #6
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I haven't tried precooking the crust. I top the uncooked crust and bake it all together.
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Old 09-29-2006, 03:40 PM   #7
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If I'm cooking a thick crust pizza, I'll cook it about half way, then top it.

For a standard or thin crust pizza, I cook it all at once.

I'm planning pizza for Sunday, so I was doing some prep today as tomorrow is pretty busy.

For mushrooms, onions and peppers, I pre-cook those. They taste better and meld with the pizza better than the paper thin raw ones. For the peppers, I use roasted ones.

I sometimes shortcut a white sauce pizza by adding minced garlic and oregano+basil to bottled ranch dressing.

I've not been very impressed with the barbecue sauce based pizzas. Any tips for those?

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Old 09-29-2006, 04:00 PM   #8
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thymeless, depends on what you are putting on the BBQ sauce pizza. Do you have BullsEye BBQ sauce? Using that and some roasted chicken breast with peppers and onions I bet you would have a winner. Thats a flavor favorite for Ken and I.
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Old 09-29-2006, 09:38 PM   #9
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Italian flour and flour in America have nothing in common as far as how they are graded. Tyler (I assume you are looking at one of his "Ultimate Pizza" recipes) made a faux pas when simply recommending Type 00 without clarification or a brand name ... and he may not have been aware of this:

Type: In Italy type has to do with processing (extraction rate, ash content, etc.) of soft wheat ... it has nothing to do with the protein content. Type has to do with how much of the husk and whole grain have been sifted away and how finely it is milled - the lower the number (00, 0, 1, 2, 3) the more that has been removed and the finer the texture. In America this would very loosely equate to "Patent", "Clear" and "Straight Grade".

Use: Just like we have flours for cakes, pastry, all-purpose, bread, etc. in America - Italians have Type 00 for the same things. While the use is based on the protein content - they can still all be Type 00 depending on the milling.

Farina di Grano Tereno tipo doppio zero ... Ideale per Pizza e Pasta Fresca (Molino Grassi brand): Walk into an Italan market and pick up a bag of Type 00 flour "for fresh pasta or pizza" from Molino Grassi and you get a bag of highly refined soft-wheat flour that has a protein content of 12.5-13.5%. Grab a bag of Type 00 Ideale per Dolci (pastries) and the protein content is 12.0-12.5%. Compare those protein contents to American flours and you'll see they are significantly higher than what you might expect.

The Answer: There is no definative answer if you are using American flour since the protein/gluten content is not marked on the bag in a way that is a reliable guide - we are stuck with going by general catagories and ranges. Try straight AP (all purpose) and see how it goes, then try 1/4 pastry flour and 3/4 AP, then 1/4 bread flour and 3/4 AP, and maybe 1/4 semolina and 3/4 AP. I have run across all of those combinations being the equivalent of Type 00 flour for making pizza dough from reputable cookbook authors/chefs.

We have a couple of reputable Italian members on here ... maybe they have been able to untangle the Italian/American Flour question from their end better than I could from this end ...
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Old 09-30-2006, 12:09 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael in FtW
Farina di Grano Tereno tipo doppio zero ... Ideale per Pizza e Pasta Fresca (Molino Grassi brand): Walk into an Italan market and pick up a bag of Type 00 flour "for fresh pasta or pizza" from Molino Grassi and you get a bag of highly refined soft-wheat flour that has a protein content of 12.5-13.5%. Grab a bag of Type 00 Ideale per Dolci (pastries) and the protein content is 12.0-12.5%. Compare those protein contents to American flours and you'll see they are significantly higher than what you might expect.
Wow, 12.5-13.5% protein?!?! That's a LOT of protein. And this is soft wheat we're talking about? It's my understanding that soft wheat flour doesn't go that high, protein-wise, and that for above 10% you have to turn to harder wheat varieties.

Still, if these protein percentages are indeed true... this would definitely rule out cake and AP flour for pizza, both of which are well below 12%. Which makes sense to me as I've always contended that pizza dough should always be made with bread flour.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael in FtW
The Answer: There is no definative answer if you are using American flour since the protein/gluten content is not marked on the bag in a way that is a reliable guide
Serving size (in grams)/protein (grams) = percentage protein

In what way is this indefinitive? Sure, you can have some rounding perhaps, maybe some seasonal fluctations... but generally speaking the nutritional label tells the story.


So Type 00 flour doesn't necessarily imply low protein... very very interesting.
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Old 09-30-2006, 08:20 AM   #11
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Well, made my pizza last night, - one looked like the state of Texas the other like Florida ! Dough was a little dry, hard to spread out. Rose nicely though - knowing the feel of the dough is hardest for me - clueless. Will try again ! I did use A P flour. Thanks all
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Old 09-30-2006, 01:28 PM   #12
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IF the dough shrinks back when you stretch it out, it needs to rest more so the gluten can relax. Let it rest for 15 minutes and try again.
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Old 09-30-2006, 01:52 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy M.
IF the dough shrinks back when you stretch it out, it needs to rest more so the gluten can relax. Let it rest for 15 minutes and try again.
First proof was about an hr. I pnced it down made a cyline shape -covered it proof again a good half hour. Maybe too much flour ?? or over kneeding ? Dough was pretty stiff. Guess I should just buy thedough -lol Thanks for you input Andy!
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Old 09-30-2006, 08:56 PM   #14
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I find that even though most recipes call for an hour rest, i rest more... i have it rest two hours (temp and humidity where i am at is extremely high), then punch it down and portion into individual balls for how many servings and then let them rest one more hour... i have used mostly AP flour recently and get decent results...

I make regular crust, not thin not pan, and i put the toppings on the pizza before putting it in the oven the traditional way and works great... the single most important thing i must point out (other than the dough) is that the oven be extremely hot (500 F if possible) and preheated at least an hour - if you have a pizza stone, please use it!! The bottom crust you will achieve is priceless. A hot oven is necessary for the pizza to cook quick - it should be done in no more than ten minutes. Another thing, go easy on the tomato sauce or else your dough will become soggy where the sauce meets the pizza.
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Old 10-02-2006, 09:26 AM   #15
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Here's my favorite pizza dough - you might want to play with it -

JEAN'S PIZZA DOUGH

1 c. +3 T. water
2 tsps EVO
2 3/4 c. (13.5 oz) bread flour
1/4 c. (1.1 oz.) whole wheat flour
1 tsp each: garlic & onion powders
1/4 c. (.7 oz.) dry milk powder
2 tsps sugar
1 1/2 tsps salt
2 tsps Active dry yeast

Fill bread machine in the order that your model recommends.
Set machine to 'dough'; take out at end of process & spread on a Pam-sprayed pizza pan which has been sprinkle w/corn meal.
For individual pizzas - divide dough into 1/4s.

Either freeze, refrigerate till needed, or top immediately w/toppings of your choice.

Oven: Bake at 450° for ~15 min., or till crust is golden.
BBQ: MOM - grill for 4 min.; remove from grill and turn grill side up.
Top w/toppings; place back on grill for ~6 min. more.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
NOTES : Don't load the pizza up w/too much - less is better on a pizza - but, lots of cheese.

I usually make the dough in the bread machine, but this is great hand made also.

When you prefect you favorite, be sure to post it so we can try yours also!
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Old 10-04-2006, 07:51 AM   #16
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as far as "resting time" needed, being basicly loathe to do something 2 or 3 times if i can get away with doing it once, i make up a huge amount of dough at one time. in my own experience, i find the the consistency and results i like are worst when i use the dough after only a few hours of making it, and at its best at least 3 or 4 days down the road. i keep it stored in the fridge in a plastic shopping bag, and use it for up to a week. i'll make pizza a couple of times and on other days use some for a quick foccacio or bread sticks.

i've always used hard wheat bread flour, sometimes with semolina. i've never even considered pastry or ap flour. i'll have to give it a shot sometime and see how it turns out.
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Old 10-04-2006, 07:55 AM   #17
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Pizza dough

Hello Barb

I usually use all purpose white flour, with yeast, sugar, a splash of olive oil and a pinch of salt, to make the pizza dough.

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Old 10-04-2006, 09:40 AM   #18
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I haven't tried making it again - but want to give it another shot - I guess I just have to learn -"the feel of the dough'' which Iam not sure I know. Thanks for all your help !
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