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Old 08-14-2007, 12:10 PM   #41
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oldcampcook, I don't actually make this. I was just trying to help answer a question.

sicman, you could, but when you pack the product, if it's not really acidic, you'll need to steam-process the product for about 15 - 20 minutes to ensure that it's sterile.

Instead of just canning the pepper mash, you might want to consider making the mash, then processing it into your own hot sauce, with vinegar and other flavorings, to ensure that your product will have the proper acidity to prevent spoiling. I.e., Tabasco (mashed peppers, vinegar, and salt) does NOT require any refrigeration, because of the level of acidity in it.
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Old 09-25-2007, 10:57 AM   #42
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I finally made a hot sauce out of my mash. I boiled the mash at the end, because mylegsbig put the fear of botulism in me I added vinegar to make the sauce, so I didn't do the litmus test, because I assumed it would be pretty acidic at that point.

I guess there's some new rule here where I don't qualify to post links because I'm only an occasional poster, but here's the URL for my pics, etc.

sustenation.typepad.com/sustenation/2007/09/my-second-hot-s.html
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Old 09-25-2007, 03:27 PM   #43
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The amount of vinegar has a lot to do with the heat. Also, I probably used 20-25 hab's in a mash and made a little more than a pint of sauce with it. I added a little shredded carrot for body and it is perfect. So I've noticed that when you boil the peppers in vinegar they are not as hot afterwards, I would just add a **** load of hab's and gradually add other ingredients to tone it down. It's easier to start too hot than not hot enough. Oh yeah and don't add too much salt. I wasted about three jars by doing that.
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Old 09-25-2007, 06:15 PM   #44
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I tried this years ago, but without the boiling part.

Can you say MOLD?

Now I am enthused to try it again!

GREAT resurrected thread!
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Old 09-26-2007, 11:22 AM   #45
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The amount of vinegar has a lot to do with the heat...
oh yeah. I have run a few batches now, thanks to this thread.

1st few go 'rounds, I used a 1:1 ratio (by weight) of mash to vinegar; never was hot enough. so i went to great lengths to grow my own Red Savina Habanero peppers. $100 later in seeds, pots, soil, etc. I now have 5 thriving plants in 5 gallon buckets that produce way more than I can consume. I have 8 quart jars fermenting as I type; most are over 2 months old. I also acquired a Bhut Jolokia plant; over 1M Scoville units!!! I have not made any sauce with the Bhut, as it hasn't produced enough for a mash. my point, even with the second hottest pepper in the world (Red Savina), a 1:1 ratio was hot, just not hot enough.

this last batch, I used a 2:1 ratio (by weight) of mash to vinegar. ouch! I love it, but it must be used sparingly.

I am now ready to dilute by means of onions, garlic, carrots, celery, etc. Here's a question for the pH balanced:
What if I place an onion and some garlic in the food processor, liquefy, then place liquid into a jar and cap it. boil the jar like the mash for 20 minutes and then combine with the hot sauce (which contains vinegar). Will this new sauce be safe to not refrigerate?
Will the onion garlic mash ferment like the peppers?
Is fermenting the onion garlic mash a waste of time?

Here is something that made my life easier, and you may like:
Because of the massive amounts of peppers I was processing, it broke my back to remove the seeds. in this process, i was removing a lot of the white webbing, where a concentration of the heat is located. so I just pull the stems off, toss the peppers whole into the food processor, chop and mash. then when it's time to make sauce, combine mash with vinegar (and whatever else) and liquefy. if you wish to remove the seeds, just run the sauce through a strainer. guess what, the stuff that's left in the strainer along with the seeds can be frozen in a ziplock, and breaks easily while frozen to add to chili and other recipes. this also makes your sauce smoother. hope you like it, just trying to give something back!
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Old 09-30-2007, 08:29 PM   #46
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Muchas Gracias mi amigos!

Ok - so that's about the extent of my Spanish (un mas cerveza?)...

Anyway - I want to thank all previous posters to this thread - it got me to explore the larger group (Discusscooking.com), and join in - what a great venue!

I have a few questions specific to the making of Habanero mash... I have a singe plant (not sure of the specific type - they're orange when ripened, but still plenty hot to eat ;-). Making the mash is a perfect way not to let the fruit go to waste. I do not plan to add to larger recipies (salsa, etc.), but want to use the mash to individual items to suite my taste for fire (ie: let my wife pour a bowl of salsa, then I'll pour my own and add a bit of mash - same for ketchup, hash browns, corn bread, stir-fry, and just about everything else!)

1) I'd agree - my experiences are the seeds and the white "webbing" is the hottest part of the pepper (that, and the top, near the stem - whereas the tip is rather mild). I've heard some write that they separate out the white & seeds, and others say they leave it in. I'm leaning towards leaving in, as this is the hottest part. What would be the reasons for leaving in v. taking out? (i.e. - flavor? pH?)

2) One of the first posts indicated that once the mash is fermented, *then* you can put in additives. I'm heavily leaning towards tequila and possibly garlic. Is there a rule of thumb as to how much to add (tequila) - and does anyone have experience on how this might affect temperature (like vinegar?). If adding garlic, would roasting the garlic be enough to kill off any bacteria bugaboos to keep for a extended period of time?

3) I'm preparing to do this within the next week or so - and was intrigued by the "burping" during fermenting. I also brew beer, and know that there is a risk inherent to "burping" of adding in air/bacteria. I wouldn't think this would be a problem using the "burp" 1/2 way through boiling... but does the process really produce the need for "burping"? (i.e., when bottling beer, you *don't* "burp", because this adds the carbonation - but over priming will result in bursting bottles - is that a danger with this process?)

Ok enough questions to get me started.... I can't wait!

Hank
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Old 09-30-2007, 08:35 PM   #47
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One more question...

I knew there would be another -

Is there an advantage to fermenting in larger mason jars (i.e., pint-sized+), or would the process work as well on smaller (4oz) jars? I'm thinking this would help use bits at a time instead of risking a larger amount go bad if I keep opening and closing a jar when using (after fermentation).

Thanks!

Hank
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Old 09-30-2007, 11:49 PM   #48
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wurensh,

any size jar would work; i've been successful with 8oz, 16oz and 32oz.

1) yep, biology has shown that capsaicinoids are found in sacks on the inside of a pepper's flesh, and that these sacks are found in hight concentration on the white webbing of the flesh, where the seeds grow from. as the pepper ripens, the capsaicinoids are absorbed by the seeds. leave'em in to make it hot, take'em out to make it look pretty (if you don't like seeds). i can't speak to pH, but can't imagine it making a difference.

2) once you add vinegar to it, it is now pickled and should last a while. without vinegar, i would say even the sterile mash, once exposed to air would go bad. because of this, why don't you make a sauce you like and use that to add to salsa, etc.? that's what i do.

3) no need to burp. just barley tighten them during boiling and tighten up after cooling once the lid pops in.
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Old 10-01-2007, 12:21 AM   #49
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<<2) once you add vinegar to it, it is now pickled and should last a while. without vinegar, i would say even the sterile mash, once exposed to air would go bad. >>

Is vinegar the only thing that pickles it for preservation? Would anything else have teh same affect (tequila? lime/lemon juice?) I was hoping to stay away from vinegar because of the taste, but if otherwise it would go bad in a matter of a week in the refrigerator, then I guess that's what's got to be done...

Thanks for the quick feedback!

Hank
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Old 10-01-2007, 02:37 PM   #50
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The amount of vinegar has a lot to do with the heat. Also, I probably used 20-25 hab's in a mash and made a little more than a pint of sauce with it. I added a little shredded carrot for body and it is perfect. So I've noticed that when you boil the peppers in vinegar they are not as hot afterwards, I would just add a **** load of hab's and gradually add other ingredients to tone it down. It's easier to start too hot than not hot enough. Oh yeah and don't add too much salt. I wasted about three jars by doing that.
Yeah, I definitely over-salted too. I didn't bring that up, because it seemed like an easily corrected problem. But I guess it's worth calling out for the benefit of others.
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Old 10-01-2007, 03:31 PM   #51
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glad to see this thread took off. i hope you guys have had as much pleasure with this procedure as i have.
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Old 10-27-2007, 07:47 PM   #52
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hi,
I am new to the site and have been doing some expiramenting with my own grown habanaros trying to make some mash.where can you get a meter or test kit to check ph? I do a prety good job with keeping it right in the pool ,but i imagine it must be a little bit trickier when it comes to food.
Thanks for your help
J.T.
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Old 10-27-2007, 07:58 PM   #53
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I am very interested in trying this but I am confused on one point. The byproduct of fermentation is carbon dioxide. (as far as I know) So if you can/seal the jars and then let them ferment, doesn't that blow the vacuum seal? I am not trying to be a pinhead, just want to get this straight in my mind before I try it.

Thanx,

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Old 02-17-2008, 11:37 AM   #54
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Hello! Newbie here as well!

I have enjoyed this thread as I'm doing some work on a hot pepper sauce formula myself.

One of the things I have found is theat the FDA classifys Low-Acid Canned Foods (LACF) as havibg a pH of 4.6 or less. I think a pH of 3.5 to 4.0 should be optimum to be sure botch cant grow (could this be where the expressin to "botch" something comes from?). They also say that C Botulinum bacteria (Botulism) only grow under the right conditions. Foods packed in the absence of oxygen, a favorable pH (above 4.6), the right tempurature (mainly room temp), and contain water and nutrients for growth. Salt helps bind the water and peppers are low in carbs and have almost no protien.

For a pH meter, try eBay or Amizon.

Good luck everyone!

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Old 02-17-2008, 12:10 PM   #55
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Oh, and I forgot, using low acid ingredients like lemon juice and lime juice would lower the pH and allow you to use less vinegar.

You could also try different vinegars, but white is used because it doesn't alter the pepper flavor.

One site (pepperFool.com) suggested using Korean KimChi as a starter because it has natural lactic acid. Also, because lactic acid bacteria (LAB) require carbs to grow and peppers have very little, adding carrots to the peppers helps. This will also give the end sauce a thicker body.

Another site that talks about "Keeping it safe" is fiery-foods.com/dave/safe_hotsauce.html

And if you want to skip the mashing all together, you can get mash at leeners.com/hotsauce.html



Yesterday I ordered the Red Habanero, Jalapeno, and red serrano mashes to try. But this season I'm going to grow some more and try mashing myself.

Also, Legsbig, I noticed they mashed Jalapeno, so I guess it can work. I don't think there is much difference in the hot peppers to worry about.
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Old 04-01-2008, 08:14 PM   #56
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Since you don't seal the jars, what's the point in sterilization? I would think that the ambient microorganisms that get into the jar after you sterilize would be exactly the same as the ones that are on the chiles before sterilization.
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Old 04-02-2008, 12:52 AM   #57
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Since you don't seal the jars, what's the point in sterilization? I would think that the ambient microorganisms that get into the jar after you sterilize would be exactly the same as the ones that are on the chiles before sterilization.
That depends. If you allow the air pressure out with out letting air in that would contain the bad organizims then it's not a problem. This can be achieved with a water-type air lock (often used in home wine making). Another way is to layer salt on top, thus keeping the nasties at bay.
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Old 04-02-2008, 12:54 AM   #58
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Welcome to DC Zonie and RStar!!
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Old 04-02-2008, 05:33 AM   #59
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That depends. If you allow the air pressure out with out letting air in that would contain the bad organizims then it's not a problem. This can be achieved with a water-type air lock (often used in home wine making).
I'm not sure I follow you. If the jars are not sealed then microorganisms will get in after the jar cools off, period. I don't see why they wouldn't
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Another way is to layer salt on top, thus keeping the nasties at bay.
Wouldn't that layer of salt also keep out the good microorganisms that are necessary for fermentation?
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Old 04-03-2008, 06:50 PM   #60
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Quote:
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That depends. If you allow the air pressure out with out letting air in that would contain the bad organizims then it's not a problem. This can be achieved with a water-type air lock (often used in home wine making). Another way is to layer salt on top, thus keeping the nasties at bay.
Thank you for the reply RStar. I have a bunch of pepper plants growing this spring with the sole intent of trying this.
Jim
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