Cookery books tell fibs!

[Mad Cook]

I love all the language tid bits here!

That's a perfect picture of fond MsM, but if the truth be known, I'd never heard the word before coming here. Then again, I wasn't raised with proper culinary terms and "crispy bits" got the message across just fine. Whatever it's called, it's sure the key to tasty food.

"Fond" as a cookery term comes from the French culinary tradition and it's used in professional cheffing establishments where that is followed.

But we are DC and can call it whatever we like, so there!

 

[Dawgluver]

Psst, Kayelle, it's "crusty bits." "Crispy bits" is something altogether different.

 

[Kayelle]

Psst, Kayelle, it's "crusty bits." "Crispy bits" is something altogether different.

Gotcha . What about "tid bits"?
oh wait....tidbits is one word.

 

[CWS4322]

Thanks, I try my best.

It is more of a nerdy almost OCD thing that makes me not like substituting ingredients. I do everything by the book in general. My whole career has meant I do everything by the book. Rough guesstimates just will not do.

Drives Mrs Wyshiepoo wild, when I do something around the house it has to be researched, measured and done exactly as 'the book' says.

I research food (and other things) to the nth degree, I earn part of my living as a researcher, but I also like to figure out how to use what I have on hand, rather than go out and buy ingredients. Hence, the reason I'm making roasted leek lasagna...too many leeks, tired of leek-potato soup, hence, roasted leek-red pepper lasagna.

 

[taxlady]

I research food (and other things) to the nth degree, I earn part of my living as a researcher, but I also like to figure out how to use what I have on hand, rather than go out and buy ingredients. Hence, the reason I'm making roasted leek lasagna...too many leeks, tired of leek-potato soup, hence, roasted leek-red pepper lasagna.

Danes use leeks a lot. I did a search on my Danish cooking site and got 831 recipes! Tøm køleskabet, søg på en eller flere ingredienser. Søg efter porrer. I used their "empty the fridge" search. If you want to narrow it down, just add some other ingredients. If you need any help with the Danish, let me know.

 

[CWS4322]

Danes use leeks a lot. I did a search on my Danish cooking site and got 831 recipes! Tøm køleskabet, søg på en eller flere ingredienser. Søg efter porrer. I used their "empty the fridge" search. If you want to narrow it down, just add some other ingredients. If you need any help with the Danish, let me know.

I never had heard of leeks until I was visiting "aunt Helga" in Munich. She left me a note when she went to work telling me to figure out something to do with them.The gal who orders from the wholesaler really over ordered leeks, so I've been trying to use them up! I love leeks, but really, 40 lb is a lot to use up! And leek and potato soup only goes so far.

 

[RPCookin]

"Fond" as a cookery term comes from the French culinary tradition and it's used in professional cheffing establishments where that is followed.

But we are DC and can call it whatever we like, so there!

I made this post in a discussion here almost 10 years ago, just a few months after I joined the site.

I am slightly confused with this word. I have seen it stated several times here on the forum that the term refers to "those tasty brown bits in the bottom of the pan" after frying or roasting something (usually meat). But in cooking school, fond is defined simply as "stock".

In French, as applied to cooking, it is translated as "base, (for sauce)". Thus , by that translation, it could refer to either or both, as both items can be the base ingredient for a sauce, either separately or together.

BTW, I got the translation from this site: fond - traduction - Dictionnaire Français-Anglais WordReference.com

In general the term refers to "bottom" or "core"


Can anyone shed any more light on the subject?

Andy did some research and found my definition to agree with the classic idea of fond:

Man, are you ever a trouble-maker!

Everybody "knows" fond means the brown bits on the bottom of the pan!

Just to prove it, I'm gonna check my reference books! I'll show you!

Oooops! Well, Whadda you know!


RP:

Very interesting indeed. Everywhere I looked, I found what you found. I guess we've been using the "modern" rather than the classic definition.

I guess we could revert to Emeril's lingo and call them yummies!

Those "crispy bits" can be the part of the fond that makes the stock that most pan sauces are flavored with, but the classic definition is more than that. That said, I use the term "fond" for the crispy bits too, so I'm not really arguing the point, simply trying to add a little more information to the conversation.

 

[Chief Longwind Of The North]

And then we come to the difference between sauce and gravy.

Sauce (As in classic French Sauces) are a mixture of fat, liquid, and a thickening agent (usually a roux in French cooking) A sauce is usually lightly thickened liquid or semi-liquid, and or can be a relish, used to enhance other foods. It is usually not eaten by itself.

Think of the 5 mother sauces, or apple sauce, or even catsup. Prepared mustard is a sauce. Other examples include sweet & sour sauce, Peanut sauce, Mornay Sauce, Salsa, these are all sauces. Sauces can include meat, or meat juices (broth or stock) but don't have to. Sauces can be either sweet, sweet and sour, piquant, or savory.

Gravies always use meat flavor as the base (except for Sunday Gravy), and are thicker than are most sauces. Gravies are also always savory.

DW likes her gravies and sauces thickened with corn starch. I prefer to use a roux with gravies, except for Sunday Gravy, which is thickened with tomato pulp. Then again, I call Sunday Gravy tomato sauce.

Comments, or discussions are welcome.

Seeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North

 

[Addie]

And then we come to the difference between sauce and gravy.

Sauce (As in classic French Sauces) are a mixture of fat, liquid, and a thickening agent (usually a roux in French cooking) A sauce is usually lightly thickened liquid or semi-liquid, and or can be a relish, used to enhance other foods. It is usually not eaten by itself.

Think of the 5 mother sauces, or apple sauce, or even catsup. Prepared mustard is a sauce. Other examples include sweet & sour sauce, Peanut sauce, Mornay Sauce, Salsa, these are all sauces. Sauces can include meat, or meat juices (broth or stock) but don't have to. Sauces can be either sweet, sweet and sour, piquant, or savory.

Gravies always use meat flavor as the base (except for Sunday Gravy), and are thicker than are most sauces. Gravies are also always savory.

DW likes her gravies and sauces thickened with corn starch. I prefer to use a roux with gravies, except for Sunday Gravy, which is thickened with tomato pulp. Then again, I call Sunday Gravy tomato sauce.

Comments, or discussions are welcome.

Seeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North

A lot of it depends on where you grew up. I grew up in an Italian neighborhood. The Sunday Gravy was a rite in it own self. Except for our house. My parents were New Englanders through and through. We had a boiled dinner that had neither gravy or sauce. My mother used to mash my potatoes and carrots together with a big pat of butter and some of the liquor from the pot. Add salt and pepper. But if she decided to have pasta on a Sunday, we always had a gravy to pour over the pasta. Just like the homes of Italians were doing all over town. I can't think of any dish that required a "sauce" applied to the food.

If you had meatloaf, roast beef, or any meat product, they all required a gravy with it. Mustard, ketchup? They are what you call them. Mustard and ketchup.

 

[CWS4322]

A lot of it depends on where you grew up. I grew up in an Italian neighborhood. The Sunday Gravy was a rite in it own self. Except for our house. My parents were New Englanders through and through. We had a boiled dinner that had neither gravy or sauce. My mother used to mash my potatoes and carrots together with a big pat of butter and some of the liquor from the pot. Add salt and pepper. But if she decided to have pasta on a Sunday, we always had a gravy to pour over the pasta. Just like the homes of Italians were doing all over town. I can't think of any dish that required a "sauce" applied to the food.

If you had meatloaf, roast beef, or any meat product, they all required a gravy with it. Mustard, ketchup? They are what you call them. Mustard and ketchup.

When my parents brought prime rib home from the restaurant for our Sunday dinner, it was served with au jus. When ham was brought home from the restaurant, it came with raisin sauce.

 

[Addie]

When my parents brought prime rib home from the restaurant for our Sunday dinner, it was served with au jus. When ham was brought home from the restaurant, it came with raisin sauce.

Growing up au jus and raisin sauce was just "do you want some of 'this'?

 

[CWS4322]

Growing up au jus and raisin sauce was just "do you want some of 'this'?

The ham and raisin sauce was never my favourite...but that was how Anne, our cook at the restaurant, made Sunday ham...

 

[Addie]

The ham and raisin sauce was never my favourite...but that was how Anne, our cook at the restaurant, made Sunday ham...

I don't eat anything that has raisins. It is like biting into a wet squishy bug.

 

[RPCookin]

And then we come to the difference between sauce and gravy.

Sauce (As in classic French Sauces) are a mixture of fat, liquid, and a thickening agent (usually a roux in French cooking) A sauce is usually lightly thickened liquid or semi-liquid, and or can be a relish, used to enhance other foods. It is usually not eaten by itself.

Think of the 5 mother sauces, or apple sauce, or even catsup. Prepared mustard is a sauce. Other examples include sweet & sour sauce, Peanut sauce, Mornay Sauce, Salsa, these are all sauces. Sauces can include meat, or meat juices (broth or stock) but don't have to. Sauces can be either sweet, sweet and sour, piquant, or savory.

Gravies always use meat flavor as the base (except for Sunday Gravy), and are thicker than are most sauces. Gravies are also always savory.

DW likes her gravies and sauces thickened with corn starch. I prefer to use a roux with gravies, except for Sunday Gravy, which is thickened with tomato pulp. Then again, I call Sunday Gravy tomato sauce.

Comments, or discussions are welcome.

Seeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North

Of course, coming to Colorado from Minnesota by way of Montana, the first time in my 68 years that I saw the term "Sunday Gravy" was right here a couple of weeks ago (even though my best friend in Montana was Italian/Irish, and his father came over in his teens with his parents and homesteaded in central Montana - apparently Sunday gravy is a New England Italian colloquialism). This has to be a very localized appellation for what the rest of the world calls tomato or spaghetti sauce.

What we always had on Sunday that we called gravy was made from the drippings from the meat we had for dinner that day - usually chicken or pork, less commonly beef or lamb - and was served over potatoes.

 

[Addie]

Of course, coming to Colorado from Minnesota by way of Montana, the first time in my 68 years that I saw the term "Sunday Gravy" was right here a couple of weeks ago (even though my best friend in Montana was Italian/Irish, and his father came over in his teens with his parents and homesteaded in central Montana - apparently Sunday gravy is a (New England Italian colloquialism). This has to be a very localized appellation for what the rest of the world calls tomato or spaghetti sauce.

What we always had on Sunday that we called gravy was made from the drippings from the meat we had for dinner that day - usually chicken or pork, less commonly beef or lamb - and was served over potatoes.

You could be right. Although Julia stated that a gravy had meat cooked in it or the results of meats cooking with the liquid. Sauce has no meats.

Italian Sunday gravy in this area of the country always has meatballs, and other meats cooked in it. First the meatballs are fried on all sides and then placed in the big pot with the tomato sauce. Now it was a gravy. Any juices (including all the fat) was placed in the gravy also. Some of the gravy was placed in the pan and all those little pieces of heaven are scraped off and dumped into the big pot also. Nothing went to waste.

 

[CWS4322]

I don't eat anything that has raisins. It is like biting into a wet squishy bug.

Yup! And the sauce was thick and sweet, Yuck!

 

[Kayelle]

Of course, coming to Colorado from Minnesota by way of Montana, the first time in my 68 years that I saw the term "Sunday Gravy" was right here a couple of weeks ago

I'm practically a native of California and I'd never heard of Sunday Gravy either before coming to DC. We always had ground meat (beef and/or sausage) and sometimes prepared meatballs, but never a whole piece of meat in our pasta sauce. We just called it "Spaghetti Sauce". Pasta sauce without meat is Marinara Sauce.

What we always had on Sunday that we called gravy was made from the drippings from the meat we had for dinner that day - usually chicken or pork, less commonly beef or lamb - and was served over potatoes.

Yep, that was "Sunday Gravy" here.

 

[Maelinde]

I don't eat anything that has raisins. It is like biting into a wet squishy bug.

I totally agree, Addie. I've never liked raisins - EVER. Oddly enough I like other dried fruits like dates, figs & cherries. Just not raisins. I like grapes just fine.

I think it is a textural thing. Most of the foods I don't like are due to texture. I loathe Lasagne, ricotta & cottage cheeses as well.

I do like Marscapone cheese & most other pastas - unless they have ricotta curds. The only thing I can think of is that it is textural. Go figure.

 

[Addie]

I totally agree, Addie. I've never liked raisins - EVER. Oddly enough I like other dried fruits like dates, figs & cherries. Just not raisins. I like grapes just fine.

I think it is a textural thing. Most of the foods I don't like are due to texture. I loathe Lasagna, ricotta & cottage cheeses as well.

I do like Marscapone cheese & most other pastas - unless they have ricotta curds. The only thing I can think of is that it is textural. Go figure.

In this town, ricotta is almost a holy food. And I hate it. And cottage cheese. I used to eat cottage cheese as a kid. But my taste buds have made dramatic changes over the years. I am not a big fan of lasagna either. If I am served it, I always scrape off the ricotta. And there are so many foods here that have ricotta in it. Even the so called desserts. There is this specialty that is called Lobster Claw. It is made with Phyllo dough and stuffed with seasoned ricotta. It is so sweet that even though I don't have a tooth in my mouth, my teeth sitting in the bathroom in a cup of water, ache with just my thinking about it. Yet the folks here go crazy to buy them. I have seen bakeries in the North End of Boston with lines out the door at Easter and Christmas time with folks wanting to buy them. And they are not cheap at all.

 

[Addie]

I'm practically a native of California and I'd never heard of Sunday Gravy either before coming to DC. We always had ground meat (beef and/or sausage) and sometimes prepared meatballs, but never a whole piece of meat in our pasta sauce. We just called it "Spaghetti Sauce". Pasta sauce without meat is Marinara Sauce.

Yep, that was "Sunday Gravy" here.

I am beginning to think it is a term heard mostly here in Boston and about. So if I refer to it as gravy, and you call it sauce then at least we both understand what we are talking about.