What's The Problem - #3

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The answer is:
Bread Flour = 4 Cups
Whole Wheat Flour = 3 Cups

Congrats go to masteraznchefjr, subfuscpersona, and Andy M! It was really interesting to see the different approaches used. :smartass:
And a bottle of hair restorer tonic to everyone who pulled their hair out trying to figure this one out! :angry:

And I forgive everyone who called me a ... :censored:


Once again Shirley Corriher and Cookwise get most of the credit - after Consul's comments on the last problem. If you can estimate the weight of a cup of a certain type flour by how you measure it - why not be able to estimate the weight if you use a standardized method of measuring that you knew would put your volume measurment close to scale weight if you know the info on the side of the bag?

I know, I should be ashamed - the "trick" was to read the serving size information and the number of servings on the bag. Using 1/4 cup for one and 3 Tbsp for the other was a little mean of me. But, they are directly off 2 bags of flour I have. For the Bread flour I used the info off a bag of Gold Medal unbleached all-purpose, and for the Whole Wheat I used the info off a bag of Bob's Red Mill #1 Semolina for Pasta.

The methods I used when I thought this one up:

Tablespoons (Tbsp)

This is probably the easiest one to figure out ....

1) Tablespoons per serving X servings per bag = total Tbsp per bag
2) Oz per bag / total Tbsp = weight per Tbsp (in oz)
3) Oz per Tbsp X 16 = Oz weight per Cup
4) Weight of flour needed (in oz) divided by the weight of a cup of flour (in oz) = number of cups needed

This is where the 1 Cup = 16 Tbsp was most important

Bread Flour:
4 Tbsp (1/4 Cup) X 75 Servings = 300 Tbsp
80 Oz / 300 = 0.2666 per Tbsp
0.266 X 16 = 4.267 oz ... rounds to 4.25 oz per cup
1-lb 1-oz = 17-oz
17 / 4.25 = 4

Wheat Flour:
3 Tbsp X 72 = 216 Tbsp
80 oz / 216 = 0.37 oz per Tbsp
0.37 X 16 = 5.93 oz ... rounds to 6 oz per cup
1-lb 2-oz = 18-oz
18 / 6 = 3

Cups

This one is converting everything to cups is a different way ...

Bread Flour:
1) Since a 1/4 is 0.25 of a Cup and there are 75 1/4 cups
the number of cups per bag is 0.25 X 75 = 18.75 Cups
2) The weight of a Cup of flour is therefore the total weight divided by the number of cups ... 80 oz / 18.75 cups = 4.266 oz per cup .... rounds to 4.25 oz per cup
3) 1-lb 1-oz = 17-oz
4) 17 / 4.25 = 4 cups

Wheat Flour: this one is a little trickier and takes an extra step ...

1) 3-Tbsp is 0.75 of a 1/4 cup - so to convert 72 3-Tbsp servings into 1/4 cups servings ... multiply the number of servings X 0.75 .... 72 X 0.75 = 54 1/4 cup servings.
2) Convert 1/4 Cups to Cups ... 54 X 0.25 = 13.5 Cups
3) The weight of a Cup of flour is therefore the total weight divided by the number of cups ... 80 oz / 13.5 cups = 5.925 oz per cup .... rounds to 6.0 oz per cup
4) 1-lb 2-oz = 18-oz
5) 18 / 6 = 3 cups

Charlotte - I would be very interest in seeing how your daughter would solve this problem! Wonder how her math teacher would approach it ...???

Conclusion: I like scales for baking - and I really need to break down and get a digital model, my old analog cheap thing is really only good for jelly and jam sessions. But, if you don't have a set of scales and you want to try a recipe - it's nice to know you can get within the ballpark.
 
free office suite I used to solve the problem

Thank heaven for spreadsheets. If you don't have one, a most excellent free office suite called OpenOffice may be downloaded from http://www.openoffice.org/ It is just as good as Microsoft's office suite and has a word processor, spread sheet, presentation manager and lots of other goodies.

OpenOffice is available for Windows [Windows 98, Windows ME, Windows 2000 (Service Pack 2 or higher), Windows XP, Windows 2003] and linux (guess MAC users are out of luck for this one).

OpenOffice is one example of open source software. Much open source software is free and many are cross-platform, which means that there's a version for different operating systems (most readers here probably use some version of Windows but yes, there are other operating systems for the home user out there).

To explore open-source software, check out http://sourceforge.net/
 
If 5 lbs flour = 75 servings @ 1/4 cup ea, then (5 x 16) 80 oz / 75 = 1.07 oz per 1/4 cup.

So 1 lb. + 1 oz = 17 oz / 1.07 = 15.9 quarter cups or 4 cups Bread Flour.

Whee did I go wrong?

BTW: isn't "bread flour" made of wheat, too? Stuff I buy is!:)

Just fooling around, I weighed four measured by the "standard" system of spooning it into the measuring cup, and then by sifting the flour onto a paper towel and gently pouring it into the cup. Came up with a whopping 10% difference in weight! A sufted 1/4 cup weighed a bare 1 oz, while the spooned 1/4 cup came in at 1.1+ oz.

Bt is all that really important? For example, changes in humidity can effect the weight greatly - depending upon how the flour is stored: an open bag?...a cannister with a loose lid?...Recently we use an SS cannister with an hermetically sealing lid (a present from a delightful young neighbor). The difference can be appreciable.

Still, since I simply estimate the quantities of everything in the white bread I bake, with essentially identical results each time, and toss all into the mixing bowl in random fashion before turning on the KA, I am unsure all this attention to detail is needed. I just adjust the consistency of the dough - if necessary - after a few minutes of mixing. Works for me.:)
 
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oldcoot said:
If 5 lbs flour = 75 servings @ 1/4 cup ea, then (5 x 16) 80 oz / 75 = 1.07 oz per 1/4 cup.

So 1 lb. + 1 oz = 17 oz / 1.07 = 15.9 quarter cups or 4 cups Bread Flour.

Whee did I go wrong?

You didn't go wrong. 4 cups is the correct answer for bread flour.
 
Oops - sorry - I thought it was 3 for Bread and 4 for wheat - had it backwards. Not unusual for me!

Anyway, that didn't require any involved math - which I never could fathom. Just simple arithmetic.(Yeah, I used my on-screen calculator!:blush: )
 
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I just keep adding flour until I get the right feel to the dough. That works for making focaccia. :chef:

Sorry I wasn't here in time for this one. My Internet access went away on a misunderstanding, and I only just now got it back.

The rule of thumb I follow is based on a conversion chart I found, that 4 ounces of flour equals one cup, as measured out using Michael's method above. So, dividing ounces by 4 should yield cups, in theory. This only applies to white flours (bread and all-purpose, and maybe cake), so the heavier flours will need different calculations.
 
Consul - the problem with "the chart" is that it really doesn't really work for baking. While 4-oz/cup is about right for cake flour, all purpose is about 4.25-oz, and bread flour is a little over 5-oz. Someone somewhere mentioned a chart in "Baker's Illustrated" - published by the folks at "Cook's Illustrated" that I admire 2nd only to Alton Brown for TV shows ... but they are in the NorthEast - and didn't include Southern milled flours.

The "problem" didn't allow for using "charts" - it required you to figure it out from the information on the bag. That's why I used semolina flour data for the whole wheat flour.
 
Mike, I'm not sure any weight per cup is of any real use, as too many factors affect the amount of flour in a measured cupful.

Obviously, the most precise recipe would give the weight, not the volume, of flour. With electronic kitchen scales so inexpensive now (mine was under $25), such might not be too exclusive. (Or both volume & weight could be noted?)

But then, with all the other variables present in bread making, even that would be no guarantee.:)
 
I know the problem didn't allow for charts. I just told the way I go about it since the problem had been solved and explained already.

One of the things I learned in chemistry class was all about inaccuracy in measuring (which relates to significant digits). I think you'll find if you measure a dozen one-pound bags of the same flour using a nice, super-accurate scale that you'll get a wide variance of weights from bag to bag, maybe by as much as a three to four ounce range.

One of the things on my shopping list is a nice and accurate digital scale for the kitchen. I wouldn't mind getting some pipettes and a buret or two, either. :mrgreen: I'd also like one of those infrared thermometers (the kind that can tell you the temperature of a surface at a distance), but that's another post.
 

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