Eating based on the food pyramid vs Mediterranean

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discusscookingnewbie

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Hello all again. You might have heard or remember the food pyramid they would teach about in grade school, there is a Wikipedia article on it. I would prefer the latest updated version of that if its healthier then the Mediterranean and no meat at all as I have seen on the nets that no meat with food is actually healthier, espeashally not having red meat as red meat can cause unhealthy problems in the body. I don't know if any of that is true however I would rather play it safe than sorry by not eating red meat or any meat for now until I know for sure.

I thought about switching to eating healthy using the food pyramid or based on the food pyramid rather then the Mediterranean food red bean and barley recipe I eat every day that I have discussed in my previous threads. If not, maybe I can modify what I already eat to make it better or healthier.

I saw a nutritionist sort of recently and she helped me and gave me some advice to improve it or make it healthier. I already started to change it up a bit this year with adding more beans rather then just the dark red kidney beans, more fruit that is usually different types of grapes rather then bananas.

so having said all that, Is eating the food pyramid way healthier? espeashally not eating any meat or is eating the Mediterranean way healthier?
 
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Chief Longwind Of The North

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There are healthy meats like bison, venison, elk, goat, rabbit, most wild game. The issues with red meat is that we are forcing the animals to live sedentary, fat producing life styles, and feeding then foods to maximise unatural growth. Pasture raised animals are healthier, less prone to excessive fat, and when allowed to graze on the natural plants, insects, and such, taste better, and are a great source of lean protien, and valuable nutrients. In addition, there are a host of wild foods available with but a walk in the forest, that are nutritionally superior to anything found in the supermarkets. There are berries, cherries, apples, nuts, grains, leeks, ramps, edible flowers, mushrooms, cowslups, barious members of the lilly family, dandylions, sourgrass, wintergreen, nettles, honey, wild fish, purslane, burdock, and many others, many of them considered weeds in our lawns. In the once famous words of the late Mr. Gibson: "Ever eat a pine tree? Many parts are edible.".

Getting out into the forests, and fields, foraging for wild foods saves money, invigorates the body, and refreshes the soul. It also privides healthier foods.

Seeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North
 

GotGarlic

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There are obviously unhealthy ways to eat, but there is no either-or healthy way to eat. People eat well in all kinds of ways, with or without meat, poultry, fish and seafood and other foods. You need to determine what's best for you based on your health needs, food preferences and other personal decisions.
 

GotGarlic

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There are healthy meats like bison, venison, elk, goat, rabbit, most wild game. The issues with red meat is that we are forcing the animals to live sedentary, fat producing life styles, and feeding then foods to maximise unatural growth. Pasture raised animals are healthier, less prone to excessive fat, and when allowed to graze on the natural plants, insects, and such, taste better, and are a great source of lean protien, and valuable nutrients. In addition, there are a host of wild foods available with but a walk in the forest, that are nutritionally superior to anything found in the supermarkets. There are berries, cherries, apples, nuts, grains, leeks, ramps, edible flowers, mushrooms, cowslups, barious members of the lilly family, dandylions, sourgrass, wintergreen, nettles, honey, wild fish, purslane, burdock, and many others, many of them considered weeds in our lawns. In the once famous words of the late Mr. Gibson: "Ever eat a pine tree? Many parts are edible.".



Getting out into the forests, and fields, foraging for wild foods saves money, invigorates the body, and refreshes the soul. It also privides healthier foods.



Seeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North
That sounds idyllic, Chief, but you know as well as I do that it' s not realistic for most people to forage enough to live on. There's a reason why most people aren't hunter-gatherers anymore. The biggest problem with most people's diet is that they eat too much of the wrong things.
 
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taxlady

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There are obviously unhealthy ways to eat, but there is no either-or healthy way to eat. People eat well in all kinds of ways, with or without meat, poultry, fish and seafood and other foods. You need to determine what's best for you based on your health needs, food preferences and other personal decisions.

I agree.
 

blissful

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We eat for health. There's nothing that tastes as good as healthy feels.
We eat whole food plant based (no oil, little salt, no refined sugar), and no animal products. Our exception is honey, it is an animal product of sorts.
Learn what you can about nutrition and how it affects health.
 

LVDeb

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Before the liver transplant, I would eat fairly clean (making much of my own stuff...but then prednisone happened and everything went out the window). My liver doctor introduced me to the Mediterranean way of eating, which brought into focus what I was instinctively trying to do. If you're ever on steroids, this way of eating cuts down the nasty junk food/sugar cravings like a hot knife through buttah.

With that said, we don't eat beef here. We don't like what the commercial meat companies are doing. A couple times of year, we place an order with Rock River Bison and order straight from the rancher. He started out only selling to high end restaurants, but after COVID hit, his son suggested selling to the public. Ranch to table doesn't get any better than this.

Oh, and they sell great buffalo rugs too. Out in the desert here, it's way to heavy and warm to sleep under, even in winter, but in the guest room on the daybed (aka: The Buffalo Room), it's cool and comfy to nap ON.

As far as the "food pyramid" goes, I don't trust it. It's been mucked up since the start and all part of propaganda. Watch the episode of "Adam Ruins Everything" where he takes a deep dive into "diet foods". It's an eye-opener.

I also believe that genetics plays a big part. Back in the 90's I was working in a health food store and tried going vegetarian.

So many nopes on so many levels.

My family background is strongly rooted in eastern Europe (83% Russian, with the rest in Greece, France, Italy, Romania and the Balkans...all the great food places!). I need the meats. My ancestors most likely ate a bit of everything, and for all I know, my people go all the way back to the Rus in the frozen north. You think they were farming all year 'round? I doubt it. Meat and fish were on the table.

At any rate, it works for me, and that's what it's all about. Finding what works for you.
 

taxlady

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Deb, I agree about the genetics. I was a vegetarian off and on for five or six years. I never stopped craving meat. I was ovo-lacto, so it wasn't just a question of craving protein. My ancestors are from Scandinavia. My father's mother was Saami. Reindeer herders and hunter gatherers. Lots of meat in that diet and next to no veg in winter. But, some people just don't need that much meat. I get almost all of the meat I buy from smaller Quebec farms. I'm lucky that I have the privilege of being able to be that picky and still eat meat. I'm picky about fish too.
 

kb0000

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Its not the critter that matters--There are healthy meats like bison, venison, elk, goat, rabbit, most wild game.”-- that makes for healthy meat, its how it was raised. “There are healthy meats like bison, venison, elk, goat, rabbit, most wild game.” are almost always free range grass fed meat. Free range grass fed beef is equally low fat. And beware packaged ground bison meat. It has added fat, making it as bad a 80-20 hamburger. Same for ground turkey, pork, and chicken which usually have added fat. Free range chicken is also good, as is no skin chicken. The Med diet has little red meat, a lot of fish & sea food which typically is low fat.
Not all fats are bad. Trans fats are the worst. Too much saturated fat also bad, but a little is essential. The good fats are olive oil, prevalent in the Med diet, and canola oil. That’s it. Avoid all other plant based fats and meat fat.
The pyramid has improved by pushing more veggies, but the government is still corrupted by the meat industry. Go Mediterranean, but keep this in mind. The Med diet is excessively heavy on veggies. That’s mostly because lean meat and fish are really expensive. The key is to limit saturated fat. Not eating meat does it, but so does eating low fat meat & sea food.
 

kb0000

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Its not the critter that matters that makes for healthy meat, its how it was raised. Raindeer are free range grass fed meat. That’s low saturated fat. Free range grass fed beef is equally low fat. Beware packaged ground bison, turkey, pork, and chicken which usually have added fat making them as bad as 80-20% beef. Free range chicken is also good, as is no skin chicken.
Not all fats are bad. Trans fats are the worst. Too much saturated fat also bad, but a little is essential. The good fats are olive oil, prevalent in the Med diet, and canola oil. That’s it. Avoid all other plant based fats and meat fat.
 

JonasStax

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https://www.iitaly.org/magazine/focus/life-people/article/truth-about-mediterranean-diet

First of all, the Mediterranean diet is a lifestyle. It is not only a set of rules to follow at the table, clarifies medical professor Maurizio Trevisan, founding dean of the CUNY School of Medicine and an expert on how lifestyle help cause or prevent cardiovascular disease. Indeed, this dietary attitude promotes healthy habits as well, such as eating socially.

Colorado, for instance, has a heart disease mortality and serum cholesterol lower than certain part of Italy. In these state, people embraced a healthy lifestyle characterized by high physical activity and a healthier diet. (Read the full transcript at the web site)

https://ich.unesco.org/en/RL/mediterranean-diet-00884#

The Mediterranean diet involves a set of skills, knowledge, rituals, symbols and traditions concerning crops, harvesting, fishing, animal husbandry, conservation, processing, cooking, and particularly the sharing and consumption of food. Eating together is the foundation of the cultural identity and continuity of communities throughout the Mediterranean basin. (UNESCO) (Read the full transcript at the web site)
 

taxlady

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Reindeer actually eat a lot of lichen. They can and will eat green plants in summer, but they tend to prefer lichen. I don't know about reindeer elsewhere, but Saami reindeer are definitely free range. Reindeer meat is very lean and is a good source of omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids. I'm sure some of that applies to other caribou as well.
 

LVDeb

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I've given up on the word "diet". It is banned from this household. Any "diet" a culture ate was, indeed, a lifestyle. In the archaeological sense of the word, what kind of diet did these ancient people have? What was available? It certainly wasn't the fad-related definition of "diet" we have today.

Hope that makes sense. Too much caffeine today. Kinda wired.
 

dragnlaw

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I certainly have to laugh at .. what's that diet called where only raw unprocessed foods are eaten?

Did they ever think of what the life span was for a lot of those ancient 'gatherer's'. 30? 40? years of age?
 

LVDeb

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Well, you know, you couldn't exactly go into a grocery store for Mammoth Tenderloin. I'm sure that had a little something to do with the shorter lifespan.
 

JonasStax

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Probably the best history and description of the Mediterranean Diet.

Chapter 2. History of Mediterranean food
Mohamed Yassine Essid
Dans MediTERRA 2012 (english) (2012), pages 51 à 69

https://www.cairn.info/mediterra-2012-english--9782724612486-page-51.htmMediterranean

"Did they ever think of what the life span was for a lot of those ancient 'gatherer's'. 30? 40? years of age?"

My Southern Italian ancestors live to an average age of 85 years.

The biggest killer of Europeans was poor sanitation, hence the spread of the Bubonic Plague estimated wiping out, depending on locality, between 25% to 60% of the 14th century European population.

Industrialised Coal 17th to 19th Century Europe, estimated average lifespan 40 years.

20th Century living with adequate healthcare, people smoked and consumed alcohol excessively, consumed a high fat diet, People still managed to live to 70 years.
 

Chief Longwind Of The North

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I certainly have to laugh at .. what's that diet called where only raw unprocessed foods are eaten?

Did they ever think of what the life span was for a lot of those ancient 'gatherer's'. 30? 40? years of age?

Steven Jobs ate only raw veggies and plants. He even nmed his company after his dietary preferences, i.e. Apple. He died of liver failure causrd by his diet.

I read about a neighborhood in New York state, that was populated by Italian imigrants. This community had abnormaly long lives, in spite of the fact that they ate foods rich in cheeses, pasta, with fatty meats, and a fairly western style diet. So how come they lived so long? The article stated that they are a tight nit comunity, where everyone knows everyone else. They share their joys, sorrow, triumphs, and failures., in short, their lives. They relieve each other's stress. This seems to be the most important factor in a healthy lifespan.

The body reacts to stress by ramping up for emergency action. It doesn't care if the stress is caused by a bear chasing you, or badly behaving childre. More adrenaline pumps through the body. The liver releases sugars into the blood stream. The body becomes ready for hyper-activity., often with no outlet available to expend the extra energy. This causes inflamation, depression, and a host of body damaging effects.

In the paraphrased words of Crocodile Dundee, we could all use more mates.

Yes, what we eat is important. I do belive thogh, that how we live our lives is even more important.

Don't take this as a prosilitizing statement. In the church to which I belong, we also enjoy longer lives than is average in the U.S. We place great value in families, and assisting each other. When there is a problem, be it help repairing a vehicle, helping elderly get groceries, or just enjoying people who accept you, we assist each other, as best as we can. Again, stress relief.

So is it the Mediteranian foods, or the Mediteranian lifestyle, or both, that contributes to the longer lives? You have to decide that for yourself. I just know that stress ruins luves. It played a major roll in destroying my kidneys. I know of at least 4 people, some who were relatives, who never found the answers to their stress, and who commited suicide.

DC is a good place to relax, relieve a bit of stress, and get lost, for just a little while. This forum won't repair my roof, but by sharing what I have learned in this life, and benifitting from other perspectives and wisdom, shared by all of you, it makes life just more enjoyable.

Seeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North
 

taxlady

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Probably the best history and description of the Mediterranean Diet.

Chapter 2. History of Mediterranean food
Mohamed Yassine Essid
Dans MediTERRA 2012 (english) (2012), pages 51 à 69

https://www.cairn.info/mediterra-2012-english--9782724612486-page-51.htmMediterranean

"Did they ever think of what the life span was for a lot of those ancient 'gatherer's'. 30? 40? years of age?"

My Southern Italian ancestors live to an average age of 85 years.


The biggest killer of Europeans was poor sanitation, hence the spread of the Bubonic Plague estimated wiping out, depending on locality, between 25% to 60% of the 14th century European population.

Industrialised Coal 17th to 19th Century Europe, estimated average lifespan 40 years.

20th Century living with adequate healthcare, people smoked and consumed alcohol excessively, consumed a high fat diet, People still managed to live to 70 years.
Were those ancestors of yours in Italy still hunter gatherers? I think that dragn was talking about a lot longer ago.

My people, the Saami often lived into their seventies and eighties in the past couple of centuries, unless they caught tuberculosis or smallpox. The records for Saami births and deaths get sparse the farther back you go and are very skimpy before 1700. The black death didn't really get to the Saami. Not living in cities, or even villages, and spending most of your life outdoors helps prevent some diseases. Heck, my grandmother lived to over a hundred. But, in her case, modern healthcare may have been a factor. She died in the 1980s.

Once you start counting life expectancy only of people who survive to the age of five, it's surprising how long it was in the past few hundred years.
 

JonasStax

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"Were those ancestors of yours in Italy still hunter gatherers? I think that dragn was talking about a lot longer ago."

My ancestors were mountain living, hunter gatherers, scavengers.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/...ncient-people-live-life-span-versus-longevity

"In the 1st Century, Pliny devoted an entire chapter of The Natural History to people who lived longest. Among them he lists the consul M Valerius Corvinos (100 years), Cicero’s wife Terentia (103), a woman named Clodia (115 – and who had 15 children along the way), and the actress Lucceia who performed on stage at 100 years old.

Then there are tombstone inscriptions and grave epigrams, such as this one for a woman who died in Alexandria in the 3rd Century BC. “She was 80 years old, but able to weave a delicate weft with the shrill shuttle”, the epigram reads admiringly."

"Taken altogether, life span in ancient Rome probably wasn’t much different from today. It may have been slightly less “because you don’t have this invasive medicine at end of life that prolongs life a little bit, but not dramatically different”, Scheidel says. “You can have extremely low average life expectancy, because of, say, pregnant women, and children who die, and still have people to live to 80 and 90 at the same time. They are just less numerous at the end of the day because all of this attrition kicks in."

https://www.cairn.info/mediterra-201...mMediterranean

Probably the best explanation of the Mediterranean Basin Lifestyle, yet it does not explain disease epidemics.

The Mediterranean Basin Lifestyle consisted of tightly grouped houses with narrow access roads wide enough for a horse draw cart. The chamber pot waste was throw out the window into the street. People rarely bathed. Diseases were unknow. The streets stank of horse manure and urine and human waste. Yet a percentage of the human race built up immunity to disease.

The true historical lifespan may never be known because as the BBC article points, out averages is a numbers game. The majority of people living Mediterranean Basin Lifestyle lived in squaller, the wealthy and aristocrats lived better lives. What would occur if the disease factor was removed?
 
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