We want another QUALITY knife to add and we have been looking at many other lines: Wusthof, Messermeister,Shun, and looked (only on-line) at Misono.
I've been looking at Gunter Wilhelm as well as some of the other higher end brands too. Boy, does my brain hurt from all the choices.
isharpenit, could you share the reason(s) why you chose the GW over Shun and Misono?
A Misono is a very nice way to transition from Germanics to performance - stainless, double bevels, western handles. A good way to go.
Wouldn't! Chinese vs Japanese. The GW's are made of relatively inferior 400 steel. Made in China. Cheap in manufacturing cost, low in quality.
Where do you get your information? Gunter Wilhelm knives are forged IN GERMANY from 440 steel, and the blanks are then sent to the finishing plant in China for shaping, sharpening, hardening, and assembly.
I had top of the line Henckles before I bought my Gunters, and the Gunters are a far better product.
...I shuddered when I saw the Good Eats episode where AB explained why tomatoes are better cut with a serrated blade. If you can't slice a tomato with a plain edge, you don't need a new knife, you just need to sharpen your old one!...
By low quality I was not referring to fit and finish. The GW knives are indeed beautiful. I do hope there isn't too much lead in the Chinese handle finish.... LOL. The steel from which the blades are made, however, is a totally different matter. GW says "Gunter Wilhelm Knives are made from 440 steel (also known as X50CrMoV5) which is purchased in Solingen Germany." Therein lies the problem. There is 440A, 440B, 440C etc but I've never heard of 440.
This could rather long winded so I'm going to cut a few corners to get the basics out. I'm running a query on a site that has a few metallurgists and bladesmiths to try and ascertain just what variety 440 X50CrMoV5 is. I know what it isn't.
For starters, I will state that 440A is the bottom of the barrel as knife steels go. 440A contains from .65 to .75% carbon, whereas, 440C which is a very good blade steel contains .95 to 1.2% carbon. It doesn't sound like there is too much difference but it's a big deal.
I did find a little information about the makeup of X50CrMoV5 The carbon content is only .48 to .53%. This tells me that GW is much more concerned about making a knife that shines like new but cuts like a hammer compared to the knives that I use.
But that's me. I'm a purist, a blade nut, a connoisseur, an aficionado. I want knives that cut like razors and some of mine do. I want performance before pretty.
More when I hear from the people who are steel experts on another forum.
Your statements are not entirely correct.
440 is a steel used by Wusthof as well, in fact they use 440 50CrMo15 in their classic knives.
Sometimes the upper knife makers just say 440, but they all use 440C because you need this grade to hold your edge longer.
They just don't say that as most of us don't know what 440A, 440B or 440C means. The maker will just state "high carbon" steel which is the 440C variety.
Wusthof's own website doesn't even tell of what kind of steel they use in the blades..
This is a quote directly from GW website:
"Most good knives such as Henckels, Wusthof, and of course Gunter Wilhelm, all use 440 high carbon-stainless steel".
I see no where that they state that 440 is aka X50CrMoV5- (X50CrMoV5 is their additive to the 440C).
The 440 is the steel and the "CrMoV" (Chromium Molybdenum-Vanadium) is the mixture added to the steel for strength and the formula is sometimes different for each knife producer- so the 50CRMoV5 for one high end manufacturer may be 48CRMoV5 for another.
They aren't just adding CrMoV for some sort of "shiny" appearance, I think that the 440C is also the least rust resistant of the 440 steels and the other additives to the steel blend helps with resistance of rust..
The knives that cut like razors have the V-10 or better mixes and their Rc ratings are 59-61..
Wusthof's Rc ratings are around 56 and the Gunthers have a 58 Rc. rating.
I am **** sure that this does NOT cut like a hammer.. They keep a sharper edge longer, though maybe not as sharp as a Mac knife or Global's or some of the other Japanese blades which usually are much lighter,
but Gunther's also cost less than these blades and are uniquely attractive..
Gunther will let you try the knives for 30 days and has a lifetime warrantee and will even replaced a knife if it broke because it was MISUSED - a warrantee not issued by other manufacturers..
As an aside, the blade is sharpened all the way to the heel on the Gunther Wilhelms and the corners on the spine of the knife are all smoothed to eliminate fatigue and callouses that chef's form from big cutting chores.
Hey Kurt – nobody told you that this thread is beyond the statue of resurrection limitation????
Lord, the age old 440x threads come back to life. I'm tired and might be missing something here, but when a company says their steel is 440, it's marketing camouflage for 440A. 440A sucks so they don't come out and admit it. If they use 440C they usually state it because 440C has some status.
Compared to my knives they cut like pencil erasers. The edges on German knives don't/can't last half as long as steels like Aogami Super or ZDP-189. Trust me.
What does cost have to do with it?
This is subjective but I could care less about a warranty. If it breaks I'll fix it. Cripes, it's a knife, not a car...
GWs are good knives but they are not great knives by any means, no matter what they say in their ads. They work fine for their targeted market, a market in which I do not participate.
Buzz
Bottom line about these GW knives is that they are made out of 440C steel, have an Rc. hardness of 58, backed by a great warranty, are unique in design (so guys who have wives that like good looking stuff are good) and they have a price tag that is 40% less for knives that best Henckels and Wusthof Classic.
A Misono is a very nice way to transition from Germanics to performance - stainless, double bevels, western handles. A good way to go.