Pullman, which to buy?

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dragnlaw

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Have finally decided to purchase a Pullman Pan. Probably one that holds 2 lbs? Don't really know what I'm looking for. Was surprised at the many shown on Amazon,ca, with such a range of prices!
So thought I should come to the experts here... :D
Any suggestions? pro's and con's?
 

Roll_Bones

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I did not know what a Pullman pan was but I Googled it. Very nice and I am slowly replacing all my bakeware to straight sides and of similar construction.
Do you have special needs for this pan? Replace a loaf pan?
 

dragnlaw

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Not really, I'm slowly not making bread anymore. To the point of finally buying a bread machine. Unfortunately I really don't like the way it bakes. So take the dough out for the final rise and bake it off myself. Either in the big oven upstairs or my toaster oven.
I do French Bread Baguette style, boule, and into a regular bread pan.
I think I would most like the square shape for breakfast bread/toast and sandwiches.
 

Katie H

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I've had my bread machine for over 20 years and it has only made bread once in its baking container. I have terrible arthritis in both my hands which makes kneading not so comfortable. Therefore the bread machine does that for me, along with the first rise of the dough.

I have 3 sizes of Pullman pans and I love them.

My recommendation would be to call the good folks at King Arthur Flour and ask to speak to a resident baker for advice on the pan that would suit your needs. I've always gotten cordial responses from them and good information.
 

JohnDB

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I've had a lot of dealings with these....I made Pullman loaves on a daily basis in the bakery.

Chicago something is the one you want. The others are made out of steel that is too thin.
13" if I remember correctly...but it might be longer. (4x4.5×13)

It will hold 2# 4oz of milk bread dough. (Milk is traditionally used in this bread but it doesn't have to be)

Then you want to make sure it includes a lid.
also you want some sort of nonstick coating. PITA to cut out your loaf of bread because of raisins or something. Those tiny holes in the bottom are needed....just saying.

Then you just have to play with exact weight of dough and timing of the proofing of various types of bread you put in these pans to get it to fill out all 4 corners.

The bread is awesome when done correctly and beats EVERY store bought loaf. The softness of the crumb is better than most types. It is usually light in grain...not heavy or cloying. But it is much heavier and sturdier than what is commercially available.
 

Kathleen

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I have this one and the one that is a size smaller. Both have held up well (bought in 2013) and I am quite pleased with them. While I do not use them all of the time, they never have let me down. As JohnDB mentioned, Chicago is a good brand and I have many Chicago pans. However, Chicago pans were not in stock when I got mine. :LOL:

I was the child who constantly peeled off crusts - a habit that I never outgrew. I also like the consistency in the sizes. In other words, I never grew out of my bread picky-ness. I feel like a grown up now with the bread from my pullman. 😃
 
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dragnlaw

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Because, like many others, I've had to resort to letting the bread machine do all the work, all of the recipes are for 1.5 lb. and 2 lb. loaves.

From what I can garner from the blurbs on Amazon.ca - a pan for 2 lb is going to cost around $50. and a 1 lb is about $30. (note that is 1 lb. not 1.5) so I'm sort'a stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Haven't found any that sell 2 together. Saw them on the US site but not here. I'll keep looking. For that price I want to make sure I get what I'll use! - without too many hassles and adjustments.
 

JohnDB

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Because, like many others, I've had to resort to letting the bread machine do all the work, all of the recipes are for 1.5 lb. and 2 lb. loaves.

From what I can garner from the blurbs on Amazon.ca - a pan for 2 lb is going to cost around $50. and a 1 lb is about $30. (note that is 1 lb. not 1.5) so I'm sort'a stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Haven't found any that sell 2 together. Saw them on the US site but not here. I'll keep looking. For that price I want to make sure I get what I'll use! - without too many hassles and adjustments.
Oh....
Pullman loaves might not be for you then....
Because I used a 4-strap Pullman loaf pans. (I made bread in 19-20lb batches)
So had the ability to play with the weight of dough I put in each pan. I had to do a lot of playing....
Wheat was different from cinnamon raisin and different again from Sourdough and different from rye. Of course the parmesean/herb and jalapeño cheddar were almost identical.

Proof times in the proof box were of course different as were bake times. (I just used a thermometer and gave up after a while trying to get the time perfect)

And I used compressed cake yeast too...I'm not sure how dried yeast will affect the rise. Your recipe could need 2# exactly or it could be you need up to 5-8oz more dough to get the pan to fill correctly. All depends on the recipe, type of flour, gluten development, moisture content, fat content, and etc.

Here at the house these days I have a 10qt mixer so I make 10 lbs of dough at a time. I've been making sourdough in preparation for Thanksgiving.
 

Kathleen

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The KA site has recipes for the pullman pan. Also, if you want the original recipe and to learn a bit about Pullman pans in general, you can find it here. I thought I would use the smaller pan more than the larger, but not true. I use the larger pan about 2x as much. Look over recipes and select a pan...as you may find that you only want one of them.
 

GotGarlic

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Oh....
Pullman loaves might not be for you then....
Because I used a 4-strap Pullman loaf pans. (I made bread in 19-20lb batches)...
I don't understand the connection here. A Pullman pan might not be right for someone to use at home because of the way you used it in a commercial setting?
 

dragnlaw

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That was sort'a my thought too GG, but then I realized he was Probably referring to the price I would have to pay? in comparison to frequency of use?
John, I've been know to pay exorbitant price for something I might only use every other month or so if even that. But still been happy with the purchase. I've also done the opposite, paid next to nothing and thought I had a complete waste of money for garbage.
I will never be as proficient nor experimental with my loaves as half the guys here on DC. I just like homemade bread - it is something I can actually do. Nothing fancy but the house smells wonderful! .. not always successful but usually... :ROFLMAO:

and I love gadgets... 'nuf said
 

summer57

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I've used my Pullman pan for many years for a a couple of different recipes. One recipe's by Thomas Keller, it's a good one. There's a decent recipe on King Arthur website.
Recipes for Pullman pans are also call pain de mie, so look for recipes using that name.
 

GotGarlic

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Because, like many others, I've had to resort to letting the bread machine do all the work, all of the recipes are for 1.5 lb. and 2 lb. loaves.

From what I can garner from the blurbs on Amazon.ca - a pan for 2 lb is going to cost around $50. and a 1 lb is about $30. (note that is 1 lb. not 1.5) so I'm sort'a stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Haven't found any that sell 2 together. Saw them on the US site but not here. I'll keep looking. For that price I want to make sure I get what I'll use! - without too many hassles and adjustments.
You could buy the 1 lb pan and halve the recipe for the 2-lb loaf.
 

pepperhead212

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I have 12", 13.5", and 16" pullman pans, and the 13.5" is the one I got first, and use the most. I don't know the weight of the loaf exactly, but it looks like it is about 3 lbs. The 13.5" is the recipe I posted on the croutons thread, with 6.5 c flour. 16" is 8 c flour, and 12" is 4.875 c. Here it is again:
It does make delicious toast!

And if you want to make it in a regular pan, without buying a special pan, something I often saw suggested in old books was to half fill a pan with the dough, and put a cookie sheet on top, with a brick, or something heavy, like CI. Never tried it, however.

Here's the actual dough recipe that I use - it's not a moist dough, and is fairly stiff.

2 tb yeast
1 1/2 c water (or scalded milk, if not using milk powder)
1/3 c milk powder (optional)
2 tsp honey
6 1/2 c unbleached flour
4 tsp salt
1/2 c unsalted butter, softened

I usually made this in the Kitchen Aid, but occasionally I would make it in the FP - a half a recipe at a time, combined briefly by hand, before rising. And the dough would rise 2-2 1/2 hrs to double, then a second rise of 1 - 1 1/2 hrs, before the rise in the pan, which would be to fill the pan just over 3/4 full, before baking - a short rise, which is the reason for the two rises before. It is baked 55 min. in a 350° oven - started in a 400° oven, and turned down when put in.

And two variations I often did with the dough - substitute 1/2 c wheat germ for an equal amount of flour, or substitute up to 2 c WW flour, for an equal amount of white. A little more nutritious, but still the same flavor, for the most part.
I can't imagine getting a 1 lb pullman pan. The other 1 lb pans - 8x4x2 - I just use for sweets, occasionally. A 1 lb pullman would be something like 5x4x4!
 
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JohnDB

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I don't understand the connection here. A Pullman pan might not be right for someone to use at home because of the way you used it in a commercial setting?
Because of the adding or subtracting of the weight of the dough.

A 13" Pullman loaf pan is called a 2 pound loaf but the actual weight going in it is usually not 2 pounds.

Pullman loaves are best when they fill the corners of the pan. Even the top corners. It's what contributes to the crumb of the loaf.

As soon as the bread finishes baking in its own steam (200⁰ internal) is is brought out and dumped out of its pan to get to cool to room temp. A hard crust forms at this point and the loaf settles in square....
Then I sliced it on the bread slicer and put them into bags.
Timing was critical.
Because after an hour or so in the plastic bags the crust went soft....just like wonder bread is soft crusted.

That baking in its own steam but still forming a crust on the 6 sides is what makes this bread wonderful. We don't use dough conditioners or mold inhibitors or anything artificial.
The times I didn't get the bread to fill the pan completely...well the bread went stale very fast and wasn't as soft. Those loaves looked small and didn't sell well. The bread was edible...but it was tougher inside and more dense.

If you leave the bread in the pan or bag it before it cools the bread shrinks back from the sides and looks like a 4 pointed star....

I was going to try some 3 pound loaves...no lid....just to make the tops really tall and rounded and scored with a similar type of dough....but I retired before I got to do so....so I was looking at getting a pan myself but was wondering what to do with the leftover bread dough.
Overfilling the pans caused stodgy bread....underfilling caused dry bread.
It's a balancing act for this bread.

That's why I was saying what I was saying...no other reason.

I used web restaurant supply house...they usually have better prices here in the states. The pan is pricey....but the bread makes one heck of a sandwich.
 

GotGarlic

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Because of the adding or subtracting of the weight of the dough.

A 13" Pullman loaf pan is called a 2 pound loaf but the actual weight going in it is usually not 2 pounds.

Pullman loaves are best when they fill the corners of the pan. Even the top corners. It's what contributes to the crumb of the loaf.

As soon as the bread finishes baking in its own steam (200⁰ internal) is is brought out and dumped out of its pan to get to cool to room temp. A hard crust forms at this point and the loaf settles in square....
Then I sliced it on the bread slicer and put them into bags.
Timing was critical.
Because after an hour or so in the plastic bags the crust went soft....just like wonder bread is soft crusted.

That baking in its own steam but still forming a crust on the 6 sides is what makes this bread wonderful. We don't use dough conditioners or mold inhibitors or anything artificial.
The times I didn't get the bread to fill the pan completely...well the bread went stale very fast and wasn't as soft. Those loaves looked small and didn't sell well. The bread was edible...but it was tougher inside and more dense.

If you leave the bread in the pan or bag it before it cools the bread shrinks back from the sides and looks like a 4 pointed star....

I was going to try some 3 pound loaves...no lid....just to make the tops really tall and rounded and scored with a similar type of dough....but I retired before I got to do so....so I was looking at getting a pan myself but was wondering what to do with the leftover bread dough.
Overfilling the pans caused stodgy bread....underfilling caused dry bread.
It's a balancing act for this bread.

That's why I was saying what I was saying...no other reason.

I used web restaurant supply house...they usually have better prices here in the states. The pan is pricey....but the bread makes one heck of a sandwich.
I think you're over-complicating this. Home bakers can learn how to use a new piece of equipment and not worry so much about appearances because we're not going to be selling the results.
 

JohnDB

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I think you're over-complicating this. Home bakers can learn how to use a new piece of equipment and not worry so much about appearances because we're not going to be selling the results.
It's not about appearances....

It's a question of what to do with the leftover bread dough when space is a serious consideration.

The parameters I was led to believe was that she is tight on space in her kitchen and that she has a physical limitation due to arthritis (mine isn't quite that bad yet) so she uses a bread machine for the mixing.
The bread machine she has, according to her, produces 1.5 and 2lb batches of dough. The pan she is wanting to use requires approximately 2.25lbs give or take a few ounces of dough. Meaning that for success she needs around 2.5 lbs or more of bread dough....(Usually a high hydration dough but lower hydration is feasible so dough weight is really recipe dependent) She can bake the leftovers as dinner rolls or another loaf of bread....but the final results of the leftover dough will likely be disappointing....maybe not...but likely.

That's what I'm referring to...nothing more or less. I am not commenting about her social or economic status or anything else such as her ability to make quality food. It's not a knock on her personhood but solely on the parameters she described. I chimed in because I enjoy helping others achieve success.

(Obviously, it has been assumed that for some obnoxious reason that I would engage in disparaging someone I don't really know that well....trust me....I'm not that industrious...and if I so chose to be, it certainly would not have involved a loaf of bread....I would choose a much better topic to disparage someone over and considering my decades in the culinary world I'm very very good at disparaging...it IS a job requirement)
 

Kathleen

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I consider myself a decent cook, but I am not a good baker. However, my pullman has delivered excellent results every single time. I've used several recipes starting with the one on the KA website. My loaves of bread come out nice every time and never have failed.
 
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